Subject: (whorl) Mother Godspeak (Redux)

From: Robert Borski <rborski at charter.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:49:40 +0000

Adam S. again, asking:

<What, then, is your interpretation of Horn's statement "I asked the Greater
Scylla on the Red Sun Whorl how I could find Seawrack again. She taught me
how to communicate with her sister here"?

<It can't be that Scylla taught Horn to speak the Neighbors' language, as
your earlier post seemed to imply, because: 1) Horn doesn't need to speak
the Neighbors' language to communicate with the Mother; 2) According to your
reading Horn already knew the Neighbors' language (and in any case the
translation scene was prior to the meeting with Greater Scylla).>

I'll concede you the two points about Horn not needing to understand
Neighbor to summon the Mother, but am uncertain about the question you ask.
Horn has asked the Greater Scylla of Urth how to find his mermaid sweetie
Seawrack; why he believes Scylla knows this is beyond me (is she running an
intergalactic missing persons retrieval service on the side? Are we to
believe she's currently in contact with the Mother?), but apparently she
does, for she teaches Horn how to communicate with her sister--the
Mother--who subsequently tells Seawrack she must go with PassilkHorn on part
II of the Whorl's Great Journey. But again, what is the Mother doing on
Blue? Scylla of Urth at least is trying to take over a world; as Typhon at
one time puts it, "There are powers in the sea now that would rule." But
before the colonists reach Blue, the only "people" hanging around are a few
stubborn Neighbors and some inhumi. I'm therefore at a loss to figure out
the Mother's mission d'être (or why she'd still be communicating with
Greater Scylla, if that's your argument); it must be mighty important,
however, if, as you suggest, Cilinia has somehow convinced her father that
Blue must be their first target of choice. What, in other words, does
Cilinia gain by coming all this way to rendezvous with the Mother? What,
precisely, is in it for her? And why, if Cilinia has schemed so diligently
to be with Greater Scylla's "sister," does she want to go back to her tomb
on Urth and take the long dirt nap?

Somewhat related question to Adam, Blattid, or Alex, whoever cares to
answer: why, in your opinion, does the Mother (rather a benign figure
compared to Greater Scylla) give Seawrack to Horn? And how does she acquire
the mermaid--especially, if, as I've argued, she's really Screadhbhuidhe, a
special talent?

PS. Thank to George Terry for sourcing the ignoramus/agnostic quote.

Robert Borski

*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.
*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/
*To leave the list, send "unsubscribe" to whorl-request at lists.best.com
*If it's Wolfe but not Long Sun, please use the URTH list: urth at lists.best.com

---

From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:00:15 +0000

on 3/15/01 12:49 PM, Robert Borski at rborski at charter.net wrote:

> Seawrack; why he believes Scylla knows this is beyond me

Presumably it was Scylla-in-Oreb who suggested it, as bait to get Horn to
take her to Urth.

> (is she running an
> believe she's currently in contact with the Mother?)

Not necessarily; she could give Horn some sort of invocation which could
call up the Mother somehow.  But it's not impossible, either.  If Horn can
astrally travel the distance between Urth and Blue, then Scylla and the
Mother could be in telepathic contact.

> But again, what is the Mother doing on
> stubborn Neighbors and some inhumi.

We don't know how long the Mother has been on Blue; she may well have
arrived before the Neighbors on Blue were hunted to near-extinction.  As to
why she stayed: while she arrived from space, it doesn't necessarily follow
that she can leave the planet on her own.  Or maybe she was content to rule
over the her underwater retinue and be a god to the remaining Neighbors;
just because her sister has world-conquering ambitions doesn't mean she
does.

> I'm therefore at a loss to figure out
> precisely, is in it for her?

I don't know.  My point was simply that, even without Typhon being a
Neighbor, there was already an indirect connection between Typhon and Blue
through Cilinia, so Typhon picking as destination the world where Scylla's
sister lived wasn't necessarily the huge coincidence you argued it was.

Another possibility is that all, or most, inhabited worlds have sisters of
Scylla, in which case it's no coincidence at all.

> And why, if Cilinia has schemed so diligently

This one isn't so hard.  Her plans, whatever they were, would have been
predicated upon her arriving as a goddess.  Instead she's a "sketch" of
herself, trapped in the brain of a bird, hunted, and not much of a natural
lifespan anyway.  She wants to die with dignity.

> compared to Greater Scylla) give Seawrack to Horn?

Beats me; this is one of the things I'd expected RTTW to deal with, and it
didn't.  At one point Horn conjectures that the Mother "shaped" Seawrack and
gave her to Horn so that the human colonists would love her (158, OBW hb).
But if that was her plan, letting her go off to the Whorl seems
self-defeating.

> And how does she acquire

Well, at one point Seawrack says "I was on a big boat, and I remember a
woman who talked to me, and carried me sometimes.  I think that was my
mother....My real mother drowned, I think, and the underwater woman [the
Mother] ate her." (244, OBW hb)  This suggests that the boat Seawrack was on
sank, and the Mother rescues her.

--Adam