{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1275", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1275, "subject": "Seawrack's boy toy", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-03-20T11:19:06+00:00", "last": "2001-03-20T14:15:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Parmenter", "address": "dan at lec.com" }, "date": "2001-03-20T11:19:06+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Seawrack's boy toy", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Robert Borski\" \nSomewhat related question to Adam, Blattid, or Alex, whoever cares\nto answer: why, in your opinion, does the Mother (rather a benign\nfigure compared to Greater Scylla) give Seawrack to Horn? And how\ndoes she acquire the mermaid--especially, if, as I've argued, she's\nreally Screadhbhuidhe, a special talent?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Part of the \"Screadhbhuidhe\" hypothesis is that it fits Vironese\nnaming conventions. Actually, what you wrote was this:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Robert Borski\" \nSubject: Seawrack's Real Name\nDate: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:51:10 -0500\nGiven the naming convention for women of the Whorl (since I believe\nSeawrack is a special talent), the name should be floral, with a\npossible nod to something in the broader seaweed family." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But wait, the floral-girl-name convention is a Vironese yes? Not\neveryone in the Whorl uses it (e.g. Grandecitta, the Flyers, not sure\nabout the Trivs to be honest). As it happens, we meet several\nVironese \"special talents\", but it's natural that they would have\nthose names. I'm not syaing you're wrong, but it seems a bit flimsy\nto me. I have no idea how it's pronounced, but is it really much of a\ntongue-twister? It looks like one, but so do plenty of English\nlanguage words that are easy enough to pronounce but look frightful\n(e.g. \"wrought-iron\").\n\nBut more importantly, why do you and everyone else cling to this\nnotion that Seawrack was given to Horn? I've mentioned this before\nand now I have the citation. This is during an early meeting with\nKrait, who comments upon Horn's \"lovely woman\":\n\n \"Not mine,\" I told him.\n \"Not now, and not ever.\"\n Seawrack herself said \"But he belongs to me.\" She joined me at\n tge fiit if the mast and linked her arm in mine. \"The Mother\n gave him to me. What of it?\"\n (OWB, hb, pp. 175)\n\nSo is Seawrack deluded? And what is her special talent? Her gills?\nHer song? I suppose that a cargo that included a siren or two\nwouldn't be a bad thing to have on hand if you know your destination\nhas its own mythic sea monster.\n\nPerhaps there's another Wolfean parallel in play with regard to\nSeawrack's relationship to the Mother. The theme of adoption with a\ntwist: The Mother adopted Seawrack and Horn will soon adopt Krait and\nothers. If a shape-changing monster can adopt a human being, then why\ncan't a human being adopt a shape-changing monster?\n\nBTW, in examining the archives, a few of us (including Alga I think)\nspeculated that the Urthly Cumaean seemed a likely Inhuma. Nothing\nI've read in subsequent BotSS books seems to contradict this and\ncertain things seem to shore it up even. I haven't thought it through\nfully, but is it possible that the ancient mind that she and Merryn\nwere attempting to contact in the Fomelhaut system was one of these\nsea-monsters? Or perhaps the Mother herself? Perhaps Merryn's first\nencounter with the astral Jahlee caused her to seek out similar minds.\nI know, it's all idle speculation, but it seems like a nice fit, and\nit makes the whole astral travel aspect of BotSS seem a bit less\nfan-fic-esque as well as shedding light on what remains to me, one of\nthe more obscure aspects of BotNS (namely, \"what on Urth is up with\nthe Witches?\"). Mind you, even if the astral stuff is mere Wolfean\nself-indulgence, it still makes for some great reading. P 221 of IGJ\nhas a classic Lupine passage where he our hero speculates about the\npossible effects of \"chimerical\" weapons. I grinned ear to ear when I\nread that.\n\nFinally, Borski also opined:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Are we to make anything of the similarity in names \"Cilinia\" and\n\"Scylla\"? Or is this just more happy coincidence?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Given the Urthly Saint-based naming convention, it's a coincidence,\nbut a very satisfying, artful one.\n\nShellac\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at charter.net" }, "date": "2001-03-20T14:15:33+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: Seawrack's boy toy", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dastardly Dan Parmeter having argued:\n\n\n\nI'm surprised this argument wasn't resurrected by its proponents earlier,\nciting the \"Merryn had problems with animals too\" line, which seems to\nsupport the notion--especially if you buy into my theory that Merryn is the\nbiological daughter of the Cumaean.\n\nUnfortunately, the Cumaean-as-inhumu argument seems severely undercut by the\nfollowing passage from URTH (p. 357), where Severian is talking to the alien\nOssipago:\n\n***********\n\"...the Cumaean, she was a Hierodule, like you. Father Inire told me.\"\n\nFamulimus and Barbatus nodded.\n\n***********\n\nUnless, of course, you're now arguing that the inhumi are creatures of\nYesod...\n\nRobert Borski\n\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }