{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1286", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1286, "subject": "Keeping Up With the Neighbors", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-03-25T22:43:15+00:00", "last": "2001-03-27T12:21:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Talarican", "address": "exultnttalarican at mindspring.com" }, "date": "2001-03-25T22:43:15+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Keeping Up With the Neighbors", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some thoughts on these Vanished People / Neighbors.\n\nFirst of all, they seem to be tall, eight-legged arthropods, i.e.\nspider-people. When the Neighbor \"Horn\" offered Horn his hand, it was hard\nand bristly, as one might expect an insect or spider's paw to be. The\nimpression of the \"dark cloak\" could perhaps have been intended to suggest\nan abdomen? When Horn first saw one, from the pit, he did in fact believe it\ncould have been a huge spider.\n\nIt would appear they probably aren't dead, but have stepped into some sort\nof extradimensional netherworld (the Corridors of Time? The Brook Madregot?\nSome dimension beyond the specula?) from which they might occasionally\nappear dimly, wraithlike, able to interact with their former homes and\ninhabitants, but safe from the inhumi. Horn was told \"you cannot go where we\nare\", but surely the humans could follow the Neighbors into Death, if that's\nwhat happened. While they seem to have certain similarities with some other\nGood Beings in Wolfe, particularly the Hierodules, they seem unlike anything\never mentioned in the New Sun cycle.\n\nOne of their powers seems to be an ability to project feelings and emotions\ntelepathically, to make others feel comfortable or uncomfortable in their\npresence or former dwellings. They obviously approved strongly of Horn, who\nfelt so good and welcome in their presence he thought he would gladly clean\ntheir sewers for the rest of his life. Poor Barsat, OTOH, was not liked by\nthem, for whatever reason, and felt repellent fear and menace in their\npresence. In that respect, I am rather reminded of the Mule from Asimov's\n_Foundation Trilogy_, or the Celtic-deity-aliens from Julian May's\nPleistocene Exile cycle.\n\nOne would think that this ability would give them instant recognition and\nrapport with one another. The inhumi can deceive humans with their\nshape-changing and color camouflage because humans are so daylight\nsight-oriented, whereas animals which are more smell/sound or night vision\noriented, such as horses and night choughs, are not fooled by inhumi\nmasquerading as humans. I must wonder whether the inhumi could in fact\nconvincingly masquerade as the Neighbors' kind, if they presumably lacked\nthis telepathic emotion projection ability, and if so, how. Could the inhumi\nacquire this ability by drinking a Neighbor's blood?\n\nThey also remind me in some ways of the Shadow Children and Old Wise One of\n5HC: They are spectral, difficult to see and count, and seem to love\nphilosophical speculation. Also, they used the term \"starcrosser\" at the end\nof _Green's_, the first use of that term I've seen outside 5HC.\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "j e", "address": "lo_phan17 at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2001-03-27T12:21:51+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Keeping Up With the Neighbors", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am unlurking because I must. I enjoyed The Book of the Protagonist so much \nI keep going back and rereading certain parts, especially the scenes with \nthe Neighbours which are so fascinating. Talarican had some interesting \nthoughts:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Talarican\" \nSubject: Keeping Up With the Neighbors\nDate: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:43:15 -0500" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some thoughts on these Vanished People / Neighbors.\n\nFirst of all, they seem to be tall, eight-legged arthropods, i.e.\nspider-people. When the Neighbor \"Horn\" offered Horn his hand, it was hard\nand bristly, as one might expect an insect or spider's paw to be. The\nimpression of the \"dark cloak\" could perhaps have been intended to suggest\nan abdomen? When Horn first saw one, from the pit, he did in fact believe \nit\ncould have been a huge spider." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I can see spiders also, although Horn never mentions a connection when \nspeaking of the giant spiders on Green. (Don't have a copy for reference, \nbut it's in Horn's second story to Inclito's family IGJ)\nI don't know what to make of the fact that the Neighbour said his name was \nalso Horn. The only (I think) other Neighbour name we read is Windcloud (pg \n231 RTTW), which I associate with Pas' image. Windcloud fits with the \nelemental nature of the Neighbours and Horn seems to serve them in that he's \n_real_ on Blue or Green.\n\nIncidently, I've got to look into legends based of Tierra del Fuego, Horn \ncalls the place where he first meets Neighbour Horn the _land of fires_ - my \nnext post." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "They also remind me in some ways of the Shadow Children and Old Wise One of\n5HC: They are spectral, difficult to see and count, and seem to love\nphilosophical speculation. Also, they used the term \"starcrosser\" at the \nend\nof _Green's_, the first use of that term I've seen outside 5HC." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Horn, you'll remember wrote in \"My Defense\" (Exodus) that some thought his \nbook should have been called _Starcrosser's Landfall_. It's interesting that \na Neighbour would choose this word and not Lander, which Horn uses. (The two \nwords may both be common in the way some Bluvians say Vanished People, while \nsome say Neighbours). The _crosser_ in starcrosser may be an homage to \nQuadrifons I suppose. Even the Inhumi say Crossing when speaking of the \njumping of planets at conjunction.\n\nNow a small question. In LS, the span of Quetzal's time as _Prolocuter_ \n(note Jahlee's comment that inhumi catch their prey with their tongues as \nsomeone pointed out on this list)is something like 30 years. The first \nmeeting of Vatican II was in 1962, thirty years before the publication of \nNStLS. There are clearly parallels with the Prolocutor and the Pope. \nQuetzal's prothonotary is named Bull, for one. One of the decisions made at \nVatican II was to allow the Mass to be said in the common tongue (if you \nwill). When exactly did Viron lose it's high speech? Did any of you read \nrecently about the exhumation of Pope JohnXXIII recently? His face was said \nto be remarkably _composed_ for a man long dead. I could'nt help putting \nthis together with Whorlly things. (Is World the past tense of Whorl?)\n\nBefore I finish, one more thing,\nWas Uncle Gene referring to this list when he wrote of Pig's name \nchoice?(pg. 45 RttW).\n\nI'll take the name Crateowl." } ] } ] }