{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1308", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1308, "subject": "homeopathic doses of Typhon", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2001-03-30T17:44:47+00:00", "last": "2001-04-01T21:38:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Parmenter", "address": "dan at lec.com" }, "date": "2001-03-30T17:44:47+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) homeopathic doses of Typhon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: William Ansley \nIt is an easy mistake to make in the SS books. I felt that Horn or\nHorn/Silk or Silk or whatever you want to call him bore a very close\nresemblance to the Heinleinian omnicompetent man, especially in IGJ\nand RttW. He can beat up men half his age, armed only with a rotten\nstick, plan, fight in and win battles and give advice to lovesick\nteenage girls. And that's not the half of it!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've often wondered where the Hornsilk \"military mind\" comes from,\nparticularly in IGJ. SilkHorn himself seems to provide the answer on\npage 252 with the following exchange.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\t\"This better work, Incanto,\" Inclito said, studying them as\nthey leaned against the earth-filled bags or crouched in the snow to\neat.\n\n\t\"Will Pas drive us from this Whorl if it doesn't?\"\n\n\tHe looked around at me, surprised. \"I don't think he's even\nhere. We left him up there with the Long Sun.\n\n\t\"In one sense he wasn't there, either. In another he is here\nwith us at this moment, because I am.\"\n\n\tInclito said nothing for a tiume, but I am not at all sure how\nlong a time it was; I was lost in thought. At last - \"Because you\npray to him, that's what you mean. He hears you praying.\"\n\n\tI nodded. \"I hope so at least.\"\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI suppose the \"how much Pas?\" question remains, and is not unlike the\n\"how much Horn?\" question by the end of the series. I tend to favor\nthe view that there's something of Horn left, along with Pas and Silk,\nindeed, as Rostrum noted:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Straight \nSo what about Pas? I've speculated before that the reason Silk was\nuploaded was to that there weren't enough fragments for Pas to be\nput back together on his own. To use Kypris's metaphor, Pas needed\nanother head to be complete. And I submit that Silk is the 'Typhon'\nhead - the one in charge, while the shards of Pas are the 'Piaton'\nhead, that is, the bits of code that run things, the code that makes\nPas ruler of Mainframe." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Certain Pas traits remain. Aren't we told somewhere or other in LS\nthat Pas tended to favor the weaker side in a conflict? Isn't this\nwhat Incanto did in the Blanko/Soldo conflict?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To put it another way, Silk is now Autarch of the Whorl because he\nhas consumed Typhon and knows all the passwords." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right. And consider, if the \"Horn lives\" hypothesis is correct,\nyou've got SilkHornPas running around on the old Whorl: the body and\nmind of a superhero with the \"love vibe\", the mind of a tyrant and the\nmind of an expert propagandist. A terrifying thought. \n\nShellac\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2001-04-01T16:43:31+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) homeopathic doses of Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 30 Mar 2001, Dan Parmenter wrote:\n\t\"In one sense he wasn't there, either. In another he is here\nwith us at this moment, because I am.\"\n\nI suppose the \"how much Pas?\" question remains, and is not unlike the\n\"how much Horn?\" question by the end of the series. I tend to favor\nthe view that there's something of Horn left, along with Pas and Silk,\nindeed, as Rostrum noted:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If it weren't for the passage you quote, I would have said there is no Pas\nin the Narrator. Pig probably has some Pas because he's been posessed by\nthe Mainframe version of Silk, which is Passilk. But the the human Silk\nwas never posessed by Pas that we know of, so why would the Narrator have\nany Pas in him?\n\nThe passage you quote makes me want to reconsider mantis's theory that the\nNarrator got a download of the god version of Silk at some point (At the\nWest Pole? Via Pig? During the sacrifice at the manteion? Talking to\nthe monitor on the lander going back to Blue?). But then we have to start\nthinking about the Narrator as an alloy of multiple versions of Silk (Free\nLive Free?), as well as Horn, Typhon, and who knows who else.\n\n-Rostrum\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-04-01T21:38:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) homeopathic doses of Typhon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 3/30/01 4:44 PM, Dan Parmenter at dan at lec.com wrote:\nI've often wondered where the Hornsilk \"military mind\" comes from,\nparticularly in IGJ. SilkHorn himself seems to provide the answer on\npage 252 with the following exchange.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\"This better work, Incanto,\" Inclito said, studying them as\nthey leaned against the earth-filled bags or crouched in the snow to\neat.\n\n\"Will Pas drive us from this Whorl if it doesn't?\"\n\nHe looked around at me, surprised. \"I don't think he's even\nhere. We left him up there with the Long Sun.\n\n\"In one sense he wasn't there, either. In another he is here\nwith us at this moment, because I am.\"\n\nInclito said nothing for a tiume, but I am not at all sure how\nlong a time it was; I was lost in thought. At last - \"Because you\npray to him, that's what you mean. He hears you praying.\"\n\nI nodded. \"I hope so at least.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Horn can't be literally saying that Pas is in him, because if he knew that\nPas was in him, he'd know that Silk was in him, and he doesn't. Inclito's\ngloss is accurate as far as Horn's conscious meaning goes. Still, I agree\nthat this passage is suggestive of Pas being present in Horn, more so than\nanything anyone else has put forward, though I remain unconvinced.\n\nIf Pas was downloaded into Horn, it was presumably along with the Divine\nSilk, when Pig got his eye. So do you hold with mantis that Silk's spirit\nwas completely absent from Horn until then (which I'm convinced is wrong)?\nOr do you think that after receiving the Divine Silk Horn had both the human\nSilk and the Divine Silk in him?\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }