# merging *The Whorl list — 5 messages, 4 voices, 05 Apr 2001* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### maa32 *05 Apr 2001, 17:54* Adam said: > Do you have any references for 2? Yes, Horn clearly knows that he died on > Green, that he is in a different body, and that everybody thinks he's Silk. > But I don't remember any passages indicating that he has drawn the obvious > inference that he is in Silk's body (prior to the talk with Remora). Nor, > apart from the Pas-on-Blue statement, do I recall him saying anything that > shows he knows that Silk's spirit has merged with his own. > > --Adam What about those explicit errors in On Blue's Waters where he calls his son Horn and then concludes that he caught the ball, he won the game? How much more explicitly can Horn communicate that he has merged with Silk? By the way, it's a real hoot to read the descriptions of Horn at the beginning of Lake of the Long Sun where Horn writes what a fine, handsome, and intelligent boy he is and then he and patera silk talk about the childhood toys they had (which come up again in RttW) *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Michael Straight *06 Apr 2001, 09:58 · follows maa32* > On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, maa32 wrote: > What about those explicit errors in On Blue's Waters where he calls his son > Horn and then concludes that he caught the ball, he won the game? How much > more explicitly can Horn communicate that he has merged with Silk? > By the way, it's a real hoot to read the descriptions of Horn at the beginning > of Lake of the Long Sun where Horn writes what a fine, handsome, and > intelligent boy he is and then he and patera silk talk about the childhood > toys they had (which come up again in RttW) I'm sure Nettle put that stuff in about Horn in _Lake_ over his strenuous objections. Also, see the archives for my argument that the bit about catching the ball and winning the game makes much more sense coming from Horn's persona than from Silk's. I don't see why Silk would even remember the details of that game, much less have a habit of reminiscing about his athletic triumphs over children, whereas Horn surely remembers well the first chapter of his Book of Silk and sees it as a metaphor for helping others. -Rostrum *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *06 Apr 2001, 07:51 · follows Michael Straight* > Also, see the archives for my argument that the bit about catching the > ball and winning the game makes much more sense coming from Horn's persona > than from Silk's. I don't see why Silk would even remember the details of > that game, Ummm. Because it was the moment when enlightenment came to him? *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Adam Stephanides *06 Apr 2001, 10:14 · follows Dan'l Danehy-Oakes* > on 4/5/01 7:54 PM, maa32 at maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu wrote: > Adam said: >> Do you have any references for 2? Yes, Horn clearly knows that he died on >> Green, that he is in a different body, and that everybody thinks he's Silk. >> But I don't remember any passages indicating that he has drawn the obvious >> inference that he is in Silk's body (prior to the talk with Remora). Nor, >> apart from the Pas-on-Blue statement, do I recall him saying anything that >> shows he knows that Silk's spirit has merged with his own. > What about those explicit errors in On Blue's Waters where he calls his son > Horn and then concludes that he caught the ball, he won the game? How much > more explicitly can Horn communicate that he has merged with Silk? While I don't have the book with me, so can't comment on this particular passage (which was the subject of discussion earlier), I would say that passages like these are the Silk in Silkhorn popping up, outside of Horn's conscious control, rather than the Horn in Silkhorn signaling that he is aware of Silk's presence. --Adam *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Michael Straight *06 Apr 2001, 12:00 · follows Adam Stephanides* >> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: >> Also, see the archives for my argument that the bit about catching the >> ball and winning the game makes much more sense coming from Horn's persona >> than from Silk's. I don't see why Silk would even remember the details of >> that game, > Ummm. Because it was the moment when enlightenment came to him? Look at Silk's conversations with the kids right after the game. He's so preoccupied with his enlightenment he's barely paying attention when they try to talk about the game. Horn stays behind and talks to Silk about it. Silk apologizes for pushing him down and Horn says "You were their best player, it wouldn't have been fair to them if you hadn't played your best." This seems to be the idea the Rajan has in mind after having helped the Gaonese win their war. He's saying "I am proud to have won the war for the Gaonese just as Silk won the game for the small boys." Silk wasn't proud of winning the game for the small boys. At the time, Silk said the fun of the game comes when a small boy knocks down a big boy. We know Horn remembers the incident and his own interpretation of it, but it seems unlikely that Silk remembers it or places the same kind of importance on it--he was thinking about enlightenment, not lessons learned on the ball court. (Incanto expounds a similar idea to Mora in IGJ, telling her that the only thing that is more "fair" to allow all to do their best than to ask the strong/rich/talented restrain themselves out of a sense of fairness, but since Incanto is part Silk, that doesn't count as evidence of whether this comes from Horn or not.) -Rostrum *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---