{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1332",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1332,
    "subject": "Journey to the West",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "2001-04-10T18:07:25+00:00",
    "last": "2001-04-11T01:11:17+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0012-0561@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan Parmenter",
        "address": "dan at lec.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-04-10T18:07:25+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Journey to the West",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "From: \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" <ddanehy at siebel.com>\n3) It's also in dialogue with several other things besides KSR's Mars\n   books (which I haven't read, btw: are they really worth the effort?).\n\n   a) Another three-volume hero's journey: Dante. Nell mezzo del camino \n      de whatever Horn finds himself all at sea (so to speak), lost. His \n      journeys lead him through Hell (Green), Purgatory (the Whorl), and \n      ultimately to, uh, well, that's where it gets kind of complicated..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "People have pointed out Dante parallels in prior Wolfe books, and of\ncourse the parallels to the Odyssey have been brought up.  Lately I've\nbeen vaguely considering another.  I've been sort of fascinated\nrecently by the old Chinese novel \"Journey to the West\" which tells\n(in rather fanciful detail) the story of a Tang Dynasty priest (based\non an actual historic figure) who travels west in search of the\nBuddhist Sutra.  The priest is accompanied on his journey by several\ndisciples, mostably Monkey (aka the Monkey King) Pig and Friar Sand (a\nformer sea monster apparently).  If it sounds familiar, it should\nsince it's served as the basis for many Japanese cartoons over the\nyears (e.g. DragonBall) and has been adapted for countless Chinese\ndramatic productions including a \"Monkey King\" TV series that one\noccasionally sees on the International Channel on cable TV.\n\nI haven't read the \"original\" (cobbled from various oral folktales and\nwhatnot) but I can't help but observe some Wolfean echoes,\nspecifically in RTTW, which concerns a journey to the west (pole) in\nsearch of Silk (not sutras, but I think the parallel is reasonable)\nand of course HornSilk is a reasonable stand-in for the priest, with\nPig standing in for Pig and Oreb, though not a former sea-monster\ncarrying one within him.  The parallels sort of fall apart due to the\nlack of a Monkey King counterpart.  In most versions of the story I've\nseen, the Monkey King is the main player and though one might find\nparallels with Hound at a stretch (Hound declares himself ready and\nanxious to go to Green, which sort of parallels the Monkey King's\nrebellious, adventursome spirit and at least one story where he goes\nto Hell), it seems like a weak parallel; nevertheless, compared to\nwhat seem to me fairly weak Odyssey references (Nettle as Penelope,\netc.), perhaps there's a case to be made.\n\nIs anyone else familiar with this?  As I said, most of my knowledge is\nsecond hand, though I've been considering a couple of different\nEnglish translations of the story in novel form.  I wouldn't be\nsurprised if Wolfe had at least heard of it.  I apologize for the very\nvague nature of this hypothesis.  There's probably nothing to it, but\nit's been sticking in my mind.\n\nShellac (also currently reading RED MARS)\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0012-0567@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Nicholas Gevers",
        "address": "vermoulian at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2001-04-11T01:11:17+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (whorl) Journey to the West",
      "in_reply_to": "<whorl-v0012-0561@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Dan Parmenter: interesting point about JOURNEY TO THE\nWEST, which we know of course influenced Cordwainer\nSmith very strongly. But then GW denies being\ninfluenced by Cordwainer Smith...\n\n--Nick Gevers."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}