{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1379", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1379, "subject": "The Secret: a new theory", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2001-04-20T10:17:50+00:00", "last": "2001-04-21T13:01:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nicholas Gevers", "address": "vermoulian at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2001-04-20T10:50:06+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) The Secret: a new theory", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Following recent discussions of the Secret of the\nInhumi, including reactions to my own theorisings, I’d\nlike to propose a new and more comprehensive\nhypothesis as to what the Secret really is, and how,\nas many people have reasonably questioned, knowledge\nof it can be used as an offensive weapon against the\ninhumi.\n\nThe resolution to the problem, I now argue, is another\nmuch-questioned feature of TBSS’s plot: astral travel.\nWhy can Horn travel astrally when in the company of an\ninhumu? Surely because the Neighbors bestowed a\nstrictly passive astral travel capability on the\ninhumi (we know that when the Neighbors left Blue for\nparts unknown, they took inhumi with them; so the\ninhumi must be able to travel astrally WHEN WITH\nNeighbors; Horn has the Neighbors’ favour, shares some\nof their power, and so can travel astrally when the\ninhumi component of the partnership is available.) So:\nif the humans of Blue behave benevolently towards each\nother, they will retain the Neighbors’ favour; when\nthey have inhumi captive, they will thus be able to\ntravel at will to Green; they now know how and where\nthe inhumi breed; and so they will be able to\nannihilate the following generations of inhumi in the\ncradle. That is how the Secret can be used immediately\nand aggressively, as Horn demonstrated in attacking\nthe City of the Inhumi in IGJ; safeguarding the poor\nand helpless from the inhumi is also important, but is\na secondary and defensive weapon.\n\nIf we accept this, the presence of astral travel in\nTBSS acquires justification; and a further point comes\nto mind: an explanation of why the Gaonese bury the\ninhumi instead of killing them outright. Practically,\nthe Gaonese are worshippers of Echidna, the reptilian\nGoddess who carries snakes in her hands; the inhumi\nare snakelike; therefore, just as the Gaonese have a\ntaboo against killing cattle, they cannot kill inhumi,\nonly imprison them. However, Wolfe is making another\npoint here, one very instructive as to how the Secret\nshould be used: humans should keep captive inhumi\nalive, for use as astral travel guides…\n\n--Nick Gevers." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com" }, "date": "2001-04-20T10:17:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) The Secret: a new theory", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:50 AM 4/20/2001 +0100, Nick G. wrote:\nThe resolution to the problem, I now argue, is another\nmuch-questioned feature of TBSS's plot: astral travel.\nWhy can Horn travel astrally when in the company of an\ninhumu? Surely because the Neighbors bestowed a\nstrictly passive astral travel capability on the\ninhumi ..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " If this attractive theory be correct, it seems to me that it \nshould connect to the question of how the inhumi travel from Green to Blue. \nSince they can't tolerate cold, we know that the inhumi don't fly from \nGreen to Blue. But perhaps they employ this astral travel ability to do so. \nOf course, it would be a different kind of use of the ability, since they \ndon't leave their bodies behind. At the same time, astral travellers seem \nto have some kind of physical body with them, even though their ur-body is \nasleep back home. Astral travel with inhumi lies between full teleportation \non the one hand and mere spirit-travel on the other. I think that's a clew. \nI think the inhumi are capable of teleportation.\n \"We get our intelligence from you.\" Hmmm. Try this out: \nAnimal-inhumi are just tools for astral travel. But when an inhumi gets \nNeighbor or human blood, then both of the necessary factors are present \nINSIDE him/her: inhumi astral ability + human intelligence. In that case, \nSmart-inhumi do not need another human to travel astrally, and perhaps the \nsuper-close connection of human blood and inhumi genes enables the \nSmart-inhumi to teleport, not just travel astrally. (That is, a mixture of \nhuman blood and inhumi genes is stronger then a human holding hands with an \ninhumu/a.)\n It seems you cannot go anywhere that nobody in the group has ever \nbeen to. But if only one smart-inhumu/a makes the trip, then others can \nmake the trip with him/her, and that will expand until millions are making \nthe trip.\n Since this hypothetical ability is linked to conjunction, it would \nseem that they can teleport between Green and Blue when the two are close \nto each other. It appears that distance plays a part in the ability of \nSmart-inhumi to teleport -- an SF aspect of this seemingly fantasy element.\n Travelling greater distances would not be possible by \nteleportation, but only by astral travel. Also, travelling with a human \nmust be astral and not teleportation, since the human lacks the inhumi \nability. That is, when you add a teleporting inhumi with a wholly \nnon-teleporting human, you get something in between.\n If I'm right, then the precise ability of the inhumi is not astral \ntravel but teleportation. The Neighbors gave Animal-inhumi the ability to \nteleport, but no ability to use it. Standing with a Neighbor, who cannot \nteleport, the inhumi can enable astral travel but not full teleportation. \nIt enables the Neighbor to \"phone home\" or phone anywhere else he has ever \nbeen. Aha! But inhumi are vampires and when one generation of Animal-inhumi \nget some Neighbor blood, the next generation turns out to be Smart-inhumi. \nSmart-inhumi can use their ability to teleport. One S-I can get with \nanother S-I and go wherever that second S-I has ever been, and not just by \nastral travel: the two can teleport there.\n Well, one speculation calls for another. So, Gevers, does this \nadvance your theory, or it is poppycock?\n\nJBJordan\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at ungames.com" }, "date": "2001-04-20T13:32:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) The Secret: a new theory", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:50 AM 4/20/01 +0100, Nick Gevers wrote:\nThe resolution to the problem, I now argue, is another\nmuch-questioned feature of TBSS’s plot: astral travel." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "An interesting theory, all in all, but with potentially fatal problems: \n\nKrait tells The Secret to Horn, and the narrator refers to The Secret in\n_Blue_. But the narrator does not discover that he can astrally travel\nuntil partway through the frame events of _Green_, and is surprised by it,\nwhich implies that he was not told about it by Krait and thus it is not\npart of The Secret. \n\nAlso, the astral travel surprises even the inhumi who participate in it,\nwhich makes it even more unlikely that Krait told Horn about it. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Kevin Maroney | Unplugged Games \n kmaroney at ungames.com | (212) 777-1190\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2001-04-21T13:01:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) The Secret: a new theory", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "on 4/20/01 5:50 AM, Nicholas Gevers at vermoulian at yahoo.com wrote:\nFollowing recent discussions of the Secret of the\nInhumi, including reactions to my own theorisings, I’d\nlike to propose a new and more comprehensive\nhypothesis as to what the Secret really is, and how,\nas many people have reasonably questioned, knowledge\nof it can be used as an offensive weapon against the\ninhumi.\n\nThe resolution to the problem, I now argue, is another\nmuch-questioned feature of TBSS’s plot: astral travel.\nWhy can Horn travel astrally when in the company of an\ninhumu? Surely because the Neighbors bestowed a\nstrictly passive astral travel capability on the\ninhumi (we know that when the Neighbors left Blue for\nparts unknown, they took inhumi with them; so the\ninhumi must be able to travel astrally WHEN WITH\nNeighbors; Horn has the Neighbors’ favour, shares some\nof their power, and so can travel astrally when the\ninhumi component of the partnership is available.) So:\nif the humans of Blue behave benevolently towards each\nother, they will retain the Neighbors’ favour; when\nthey have inhumi captive, they will thus be able to\ntravel at will to Green; they now know how and where\nthe inhumi breed; and so they will be able to\nannihilate the following generations of inhumi in the\ncradle. That is how the Secret can be used immediately\nand aggressively, as Horn demonstrated in attacking\nthe City of the Inhumi in IGJ; safeguarding the poor\nand helpless from the inhumi is also important, but is\na secondary and defensive weapon." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Against this theory:\n\n1) There is no evidence that any humans can travel astrally except in Horn's\npresence.\n\n2) There is no evidence that the Neighbors will grant humans the power of\nastral travel if they love one another.\n\n3) Both Fava nor Juganu talk freely about where the inhumi breed. If this\nknowledge could be used to annhiliate the inhumi, it's not likely they would\ndo this.\n\n4) Horn said that the Secret could (if it were feasible) be used to reduce\nthe inhumi to vermin, not to wipe them out altogether.\n\n5) The idea of astrally travelling to Green and killing the inhumi children\nhas no real connection with Krait's secret (which, as a later post of yours\nmakes clear, you accept is the real Secret). Even without Krait's secret,\nit would be clear that killing all the inhumi children would wipe out the\ninhumi, and the Secret doesn't tell the humans how to do this.\n\n6) Horn says that the Neighbors knew the Secret, but could not use it. If\nthe Neighbors, who were physically on Green, couldn't kill all the inhumi\nchildren, it's doubtful that humans could." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If we accept this, the presence of astral travel in\nTBSS acquires justification; and a further point comes\nto mind: an explanation of why the Gaonese bury the\ninhumi instead of killing them outright." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I had thought that the Gaonese believed that by burying inhumi alive, they\nwere killing them outright. But I don't have OBW with me.\n\n--Adam\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }