{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1389", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1389, "subject": "Reducing the inhumi", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-04-22T07:17:30+00:00", "last": "2001-04-22T17:06:03+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nicholas Gevers", "address": "vermoulian at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2001-04-22T07:17:30+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Reducing the inhumi", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One objection to my astral-travel-to-defeat-the-inhumi\nthesis stands out as strong: the point that Horn\ndescribes the Secret as something that can reduce the\ninhumi to mindless beasts again. How then can\nattacking the inhumi breeding pools on Green be the\napplication of the Secret, as this would immolate the\ninhumi, not make them mindless? Well, how about this\nresponse:\n\nOnly some inhumi have access to human blood; remember\nthe great variety of them Horn saw on his final visit\nto Green in RTW, some human in aspect, others not. If\nhumans from Blue travel astrally to Green in the\ncompany of (intelligent) captive inhumi, they will\nreach only those pools where human blood has been in\nsupply, and will thus annihilate only the offspring of\nintelligent inhumi; the rest of the species, still\nmerely animal, will continue in their role as just\nanother of Green's mindless predator species.\n\n--Nick Gevers. " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "2001-04-22T17:06:03+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Reducing the inhumi", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 8:17 AM +0100 4/22/01, Nicholas Gevers wrote:\nOne objection to my astral-travel-to-defeat-the-inhumi\nthesis stands out as strong: the point that Horn\ndescribes the Secret as something that can reduce the\ninhumi to mindless beasts again. How then can\nattacking the inhumi breeding pools on Green be the\napplication of the Secret, as this would immolate the\ninhumi, not make them mindless? Well, how about this\nresponse:\n\nOnly some inhumi have access to human blood; remember\nthe great variety of them Horn saw on his final visit\nto Green in RTW, some human in aspect, others not. If\nhumans from Blue travel astrally to Green in the\ncompany of (intelligent) captive inhumi, they will\nreach only those pools where human blood has been in\nsupply, and will thus annihilate only the offspring of\nintelligent inhumi; the rest of the species, still\nmerely animal, will continue in their role as just\nanother of Green's mindless predator species." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nick,\n\nI really don't see how using astral travel to wipe out the inhumi at \ntheir breeding pools can work.\n\n1) Can we be absolutely sure that the astral journeys are to real \nplaces and not just \"places on the astral plane\" that resemble real \nplaces where one of the travellers has been before? Certainly some of \nthe places resemble real places the we have seen before (the Red Sun \nWhorl) but the nature of \"reality\" during these astral visits seems \nawfully malleable.\n\n2) Assuming astral travel can have physical effects in the \"real \nworld,\" I still don't believe that the inhumi could be wiped out. We \nhaven't been able to wipe out mosquitos on earth even though the same \nmeans of attack should theoretically be effective and we have just \nabout the same level of motivation to do so as the human \ninhabitants of Blue have to finish off the inhumi. I think my \nmosquito analogy is a good one, since the inhumi seem to produce \nlarge numbers of (at least at first) not very intelligent offspring \nwhich are left to fend for themselves.\n\n3) Since astral travel requires the presence of an inhumi to work, \nthis method cannot be used to wipe out their breeding pools without \ninhumi cooperation, at least to some degree. Perhaps the inhumi \ncannot prevent at least a few of their number from being taken \ncaptive, but they could make it difficult. And surely inhumi are \ncapable of suicide upon capture. Of course, since Jahlee was willing \nto betray her kind, the argument could be made the others like her \ncould be found. On the other hand, one can argue that Jahlee is a \nunique case.\n\n4) Regarding the argument that only the intelligent inhumi offspring \nneed to be killed: as long as their are humans on Green, intelligent \ninhumi can arise again very easily, unless all humans on green are \ncompletely protected from inhumi predation. The only way to \nabsolutely assure that no more intelligent inhumi will arise is to \nkill all of them.\n\nOf course you can say, as you have been, that Silk|Horn didn't \n*really* think the secret could be used effectively, but you talk as \nif your version of the secret can be so used above.\n\nWilliam Ansley\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }