Subject: (whorl) The Secret: Equine Overkill

From: David Lebling <dlebling at ucentric.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:44:01 +0000

Another idea on the Secret.

If all of the inhumi who have human blood were taken on astral trips by
Horn/Silk or someone with equal astral travel abilities, and _left there_ as
both Jahlee and Juganu wanted, they would cease to be a danger, even if they
weren't killed where they slept.

Certainly the Neighbors also had the ability to do this.

Still doesn't make "a weapon too heavy to wield." That's the sticking point
for me on all these ideas.

    Dave Lebling
    aka vizcacha

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:38:57 +0000

> for me on all these ideas.

I am still unable to read "a weapon too heavy to wield" as anything but "a
weapon fraught with (moral?) danger to the wielder."  Or maybe "a weapon
you can't control (that will destroy more than you wish?)."

Because if it literally means "a weapon humans and Neighbors don't have
the power to use," then I don't see why Horn would even think of the
Secret as a weapon.  It would just be an interesting but academic fact
about the inhumi.

Inhumi would die if you could teleport them into the corona of a star, but
unless I think the colonists might be able to do that, I wouldn't call
that fact a weapon.

Given Silk|Horn's (and, I think, Wolfe's) concerns about the moral health
of the colonies on Blue, I think the Secret is something the colonists
could do, but that would corrupt them morally (which is why I think it has
something to do with taking advantage of the inhumi's desire to be human).  
The Neighbors were able to do it, but declined and left the Blue/Green
system entirely rather than become a race that could do such a thing to
the inhumi (or perhaps they started to do it--making the inhumi their
slaves in the process--then left when they realized how bad it was).

-Rostrum

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From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:39:56 +0000

on 4/23/01 2:38 PM, Michael Straight at straight at email.unc.edu wrote:

> Secret as a weapon.

Because although Horn doesn't think it can be used, the inhumi do.  Kind of
like Reagan and Star Wars; in a sense it was a weapon, although most
scientists believe that it couldn't work, because the Soviet leadership
believed that it could work and altered their behavior accordingly.  (If you
disagree with this example, substitute something else.)

> slaves in the process--then left when they realized how bad it was).

This is a possible reading of the passage on p. 125 of IGJ--that when Horn
says the colonists can't wield it, he means they shouldn't, and when he says
the Neighbors couldn't, he means they wouldn't--but imo an unnatural one.
In particular, the sentence "If they [the Neighbors] could not wield it,
there is little hope that we human beings can." is very strained if read in
this sense.

Also, I don't recall any indication elsewhere that the Neighbors ever had
moral scruples regarding their treatment of the inhumi.

--Adam

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:51:09 +0000

> disagree with this example, substitute something else.)

So you're imagining Krait dying in Horn's arms and whispering, "The one
thing we fear, the one weapon that would destroy us, is if humans ever
develop skins so think we cannot suck their blood[1].  Then we would
return to mindless beasts."  And Horn rolling his eyes, and thinking,
"Well, it won't be hard to keep that 'weapon' a secret, why would I even
be tempted to tell anyone something so practically useless?"

I find that hard to reconcile with the way Horn frets about the secret.  
His conversation with his Gaonese concubine sounds like he really thinks
there's a possibility the inhumi could be harmed by what he knows.

[1] Sort of an exaggeration here, although I think it's much more likely
the colonists could genetically engineer thick skin for themselves than it
is that they could all live by the Golden Rule.

> there is little hope that we human beings can." is very strained if read in

Horn seems to respect and look up to the Neighbors.  I took the sentence
you quote to mean that Horn had higher regard for the goodness of the
Neighbors than for his fellow humans, and thus if the secret was too
morally dangerous for the Neighbors to use, then it's definitely too
dangerous for humans.

-Rostrum

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From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:57:10 +0000

> there's a possibility the inhumi could be harmed by what he knows.

There is a passage which seems to suggest this:

Evensong whispered, "You know their secret.  You could destroy them."
  "Yes.  I couldn't kill them here and now, if that's what you mean;
but I know how they might be returned to the mere vermin that they once
were" (OBW [hb], 372).

But the context is that Horn and Evensong are being pursued by the inhumi.
Given Horn's other statements on the topic, most probably Horn means only
that he knows the theoretical means by which the inhumi could be "devolved,"
and this is why the inhumi want to kill him (regardless of whether or not he
himself believes this means practical).

> is that they could all live by the Golden Rule.

And just three pages later, Horn says "If only we cared about each other
sufficiently.  If only all of us loved all the others enough, they would go
back to that [being unintelligent animals]."  Do you seriously maintain that
Horn is talking about two different things in these two passages?  That he
knows two separate ways to devolve the inhumi, one morally corrupting and
the other requiring a too-great moral elevation?

There is another passage in IGJ which contradicts your view.  When Horn is
talking to Hide, he tells him that Krait "told me something in confidence
that they [the inhumi] believe might harm them greatly if it became widely
known.  I would probably violate my oath if I agreed; but I doubt that it--"
(351)  Though Wolfe lets Oreb interrupt here, Horn says explicitly that he
would violate his oath if he thought that publicizing the Secret would harm
the inhumi--not that he would violate it if publicizing the Secret would
harm the inhumi without corrupting the colonists.

In any case, your argument that because Horn calls the Secret a weapon, he
must think it is usable, misreads the text.  What Horn says is "It is a
great secret, truly.  If you will, it is a great and terrible weapon.  That
is how the inhumi see it, and I will not call them wrong.  But it is a
weapon too heavy for our hands." (IGJ, 125)  In other words, he's saying not
that the Secret is a weapon, but that _if_ it's a weapon, it's one too heavy
to be used.

--Adam

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:57:22 +0000

> himself believes this means practical).

That doesn't seem like it would merit a flat, "Yes."  I'd expect more of
a, "well, in theory, if I could get everyone else to cooperate, we could
destroy them."  But when she says "You could destroy them," Horn answers,
Yes."

> the other requiring a too-great moral elevation?

But two sentences later, Horn explicitly denies that this is the Secret!  
You may answer that the Secret is the details of the inhumi lifecycle and
how caring for each other would prevent inhumi from having intelligent
offspring, but if that's all there is, then Horn's broken his oath.  If I
promise not to tell anyone that flipping this switch will kill you because
it turns off your respirator, and then tell people who want to kill you
that flipping the switch will kill you, I can hardly protest that I've
kept your secret because I didn't mention the respirator.

> harm the inhumi without corrupting the colonists.

This, I admit, is the best prooftext for your case.  I don't see how it
can fit into my theory.

> that the Secret is a weapon, but that _if_ it's a weapon, it's one too heavy

When I read this passage, particularly the words "great and terrible
weapon," I think "atom bomb" or "Sauron's ring."  A terrible weapon is one
with the potential to do much more harm than I intend, or that tempts me
not to care about the harm that I do, not a weapon that I probably can't
use at all.

The colonists learning to love and care for each other would be an
amazing, wonderful thing; it would so transform society that any effect it
would have on the inhumi problem would seem like a minor side-effect.  I
can't fathom Horn (or Wolfe) thinking of it as a means to some other end,
much less as a weapon.  It's like trying to develop automobiles because
horseshoes are so expensive (even that analogy is far too weak).

-Rostrum

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From: Adam Stephanides <adamsteph at earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:26:37 +0000

> destroy them."  But when she says "You could destroy them," Horn answers,

I think that under the circumstances, with Horn believing himself under
imminent threat of death, he might not be so precise.  But I'll grant that
this is the passage which is the most problematic for my reading.

> offspring

Yes.

> but if that's all there is, then Horn's broken his oath.  If I

Horn has a legalistic attitude towards his oath: he hints broadly at the
Secret, both in his conversation with Hide and in his manuscript.  And the
respirator analogy doesn't apply: Horn doesn't believe the secret can be
used by the colonists, and in any case Horn saying "if you love each other
enough you will destroy the inhumi, but I can't tell you why" would be
unlikely to persuade anybody to change their behavior.

> horseshoes are so expensive (even that analogy is far too weak).

To repeat my earlier statement, it is the inhumi, not Horn, who think of the
Secret as a weapon; Horn just passes along their view.  Horn never tries to
tell people "love one another so that you can destroy the inhumi."  In his
conversation with Evensong, it is Evensong who brings up the Secret and its
use against the inhumi; elsewhere, when he talks about applying the Secret
against the inhumi, it's always in the context of explaining how he can
control the inhumi through fear of the Secret, or why the inhumi want to
kill him.

And, going back to my earlier post on the Secret, "loving each other" and
"solving the inhumi problem" aren't opposed to each other as concepts.
Essentially, the inhumi are the dark side of humanity; so eliminating this
dark side and eliminating the inhumi threat are symbolically the same thing.

--Adam