Subject: (whorl) Pig's eye and astral needles

From: Yves Meynard <ymeynard at globetrotter.qc.ca>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:00:56 +0000

I suppose you have to place me amongst those who were somewhat disappointed
by the Short Sun books, though I am still willing to be convinced
otherwise.

Given Wolfe's skill and deviousness, I am quite ready to believe that most
of what appears to be mistakes or negligence is in fact intended and
pregnant with meaning. But SS seems to me to have crossed a line, in that a
superficial reading of the books does not work. This is unlike NS, where
one does not have to understand every detail to nevertheless "get it" -- or
at least to come up with a satisfying understanding of the work. The same
can be said of LS, which was intelligible at first reading, and which I
enjoyed more upon rereading it.

But reading the latest archive of these posts all at once (as an aside,
Ranjit, would it be possible to break them up into smaller pieces? That >
1MB monster kept bringing my browser to its knees) made it painfully clear
that the true story of the SS books is probably quite different from its
surface. I don't mind the blurring of the Narrator's identity. One does not
have to realize it's really Silk denying his own identity to understand
that there is a merging of the two; a full understanding "simply" deepens
the poignancy of the situation. I didn't mind not realizing Pig's nature
until having it spelled out here; Wolfe did plant clear clues, so it's
cool.

What is disturbing to me is that there is so much divine possession
implicit in the story that one cannot reliably know who is who. Some of the
theories put forth here seem way over the top, but it's hard to refute them
conclusively. Given also the Narrator's refusal to deal with the crucial
events of Horn's life, the unreliability of the narration reaches such a
pitch that I sometimes feel the contract with the reader has been broken.

Setting aside the generalized spleen, I have two specific questions I hope
someone can answer. First, why is the Narrator so far away from Pig (a
league and a half, p.334) when his eye is transplanted? How long before was
it taken out? Enough time to allow the Narrator to heal and get back on his
feet -- but that could be hours as well as days. Why weren't they together
on adjacent operating tables?

Second question: on p.190, when the Narrator finds himself on Green and
fights off a horde of inhumi, he shapes a needler out of thin air and
shoots them down. This initially made me cringe, but then the inhumi are
described as reacting in different ways. Some "tumble out of the air and
[fall] to their deaths". Others are in fact completely immune to the
"astral" needles and the Narrator has to club them.

This clearly implies that the needles are not tangible: that the inhumi's
belief that they have been wounded is what kills them. Since the Narrator
can pass through walls as well, I would be tempted to assume that he is not
tangible at all himself. But he does interact with his physical
surroundings at other times -- or does he? Can someone provide an
unambiguous quote to dispel the doubt? Because if we have no clear evidence
of interaction with physical objects other than people, then we might
theorize that it is the observer's belief in the physicality of astral
projections that gives them "substance" to the extent that the _observer_
can be affected. This would certainly make the astral travel episodes feel
less contrived/arbitrary. William Ansley's observation that the destination
might not be a real place after all is provocative, but I'm not sure we can
hope for that. The Neighbors bilocate: this is presumably how they can
still be on Blue or Green and at the same time have left the planets
behind. Those whom Horn encounters in OBW must therefore have been astrally
present in the real world.

Yves Meynard

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From: Jason Ingram <jingram at usc.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:11:08 +0000

Yves raises some interesting issues:

>implicit in the story that one cannot reliably know who is who.

This questioning of identity was one of the more powerful aspects of 
the series, in my mind.  I suppose that each reader negotiates her 
own contract, though.

>can be affected.

This is a tempting line of analysis; the argument I would be tempted 
to make is that bilocation only affects those who "go under," and 
that those visited are merely epiphenomenal.  However, Severian seems 
to contradict this theory: the narrator and others appear to a real 
(?) character, so bilocation does not seem limited to shared visions 
with psychosomatic effects on those participating.  Also, Horn's 
translation into Silk seems quite similar to bilocation.

The question of tangibility is distinct.  I'm not sure how to delimit 
"physical" in this case.  The ability of the inhumi to pass as human 
is in part related to a sort of psychic camouflage; the Neighbors 
have passed on some powers to Horn which followed his psyche to Silk; 
so it may be worth playing with the unique powers afforded by that 
interaction--as others have done.

Related issues:

regarding plausibility: if Mucor's powers were acceptable to readers, 
I'm not sure why this variant (bilocation with groups, but without 
possession) should seem substantially less reasonable.

regarding The Secret:  it seems clear that blood passes on 
intelligence to offspring.  This makes me curious about Patera 
Quetzal . . . did one of his parents encounter humans prior to the 
Whorl's visit?  (otherwise, how could the first have made it to the 
Loganstone in order to return to raise a brood?)  Did Quetzal have 
other-than-human intelligence?  Am I missing something?

Jason

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <ddanehy at siebel.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 08:46:15 +0000

Quoth Jason Ingram:

> The question of tangibility is distinct.  I'm not sure how to 
> delimit "physical" in this case.  

Key point. I've said before & I'll say again: it is not science
fantasy; it is science fiction that makes some relatively unusual 
(for SF) assumptions about the nature of Universe. In particular,
here, Mr Wolfe assumes (if only for the purpose of the novel) that 
"spirit" is quite real and is (or can be) in some sense "tangible."

(As a possible point of comparision, note the treatment of "souls"
in the tv series Babylon-5, which I don't recall anyone ever trying 
to call "science fantasy." Souls, in B5, prove to be (1) demonstrably
real, (2) sentient apart from bodies and (3) apparently-immortal.)

Now, "spirit" is (as noted before) related to "breath" which is,
anciently, synonymous with "life." When you stop breathing, you're
dead -- a pretty simple and obvious equation for a pre-EEG society.
But "the blood is the life," and if "life=breath=spirit," then to
steal the blood is to steal the spirit. Thus, the inhumi, stealing
the blood of humans, steal their spirit also; and hence, quite 
aside from any weird theories of inheritance, their acquisition of
intelligence.

> The ability of the inhumi to pass as human is in part related to a
> sort of psychic camouflage; 

That's clearly true at least on one level (Krait's statement that 
humans see what they expect seems, to me at least, disingenuous).
Also I would guess that there is a certain amount of "they look 
human because they have human spirit." We also know (from Fava) 
that the personality and physiognomy of an inhum[u|a] is at least 
partially conditioned by who-or-what s/he has most recently dined 
on, whether this be "psychic" or what.

> Quetzal . . . did one of his parents encounter humans prior to
> the Whorl's visit?  

Not necessarily -- we aren't very clear on how long ago (the 
last) Neighbors left, but there are some implications that it 
wasn't _that_ long ago; and we know that the Neighbors visited
the _Whorl_ and brought inhumi with them. Suppose, then, that
Quetzal originally has intelligence, not from humans, but from
Neighbors. Then Quetzal, arriving with the Neighborly "expedition," 
meets & drinks of at least one human, and so gains some amount of 
human personality & appearance.