{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1417", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1417, "subject": "Copperhead", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "2001-05-04T10:15:17+00:00", "last": "2001-05-07T11:03:12+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "pei047 at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-05-04T10:19:28+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Copperhead", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: dd at Adobe.COM (David DiGiacomo)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/originals/originals_archive/wolfe/wolfe\n1.html\n\nWow, I hated this story. It had all my least favorite Lupine\nelements:\nphonetic dialect, misogyny, Christianity, and an incomprehensible\nending.\n\nDid anyone like it?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not me. A dumb little throwaway. What is with that urge to speak in\ntongues, anyway? Do you suppose he does it at dinner parties? Yikes.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu" }, "date": "2001-05-04T11:27:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Copperhead", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "alga wrote:\nNot me. A dumb little throwaway. What is with that urge to speak in\ntongues, anyway? Do you suppose he does it at dinner parties? Yikes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Are there more than a handful of Wolfe stories this short* that\n_aren't_ weird little throwaways? I didn't find this one particularly\nobnoxious, other than that ultra-irritating \"alien woman speak with\nforked tongue\" dialect, just par for the course.\n\nWolfe should stick to novelette length, at least. And avoid trying to\nbe Lafferty.\n\n* \"Three Million Square Miles,\" \"A Cabin on the Coast,\" and... there\nmust be something else slipping my mind." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.\" John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)\nPh.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department\n8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066\nhttp://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2001-05-04T12:06:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Copperhead", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 4 May 2001, Alex David Groce wrote:\nAre there more than a handful of Wolfe stories this short* that\n_aren't_ weird little throwaways? I didn't find this one particularly\nobnoxious, other than that ultra-irritating \"alien woman speak with\nforked tongue\" dialect, just par for the course.\n\n* \"Three Million Square Miles,\" \"A Cabin on the Coast,\" and... there\nmust be something else slipping my mind." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Other good Wolfe Short Shorts:\n\n\"A Solar Labyrinth,\" \"Westwind,\" \"How the Whip Came Back,\" \"Peritonitis,\"\n\"The War Beneath the Tree,\" \"Useful Phrases\" (actually Wolfe's translation\nof a Borges short story, but still good). I also like the one that's in\nPeace, the tall-tale about the cat and the big ship, and I also love the\nlittle story about the sidhe at the end of Peace; some people also seem to\nlike \"Suzanne Delage\" more than I do.\n\n-Rostrum\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2001-05-04T10:15:17+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Copperhead", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Other good Wolfe Short Shorts:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"A Solar Labyrinth,\" \"Westwind,\" \"How the Whip Came Back,\" \"Peritonitis,\"\n\"The War Beneath the Tree,\" \"Useful Phrases\" (actually Wolfe's translation\nof a Borges short story, but still good). I also like the one that's in\nPeace, the tall-tale about the cat and the big ship, and I also love the\nlittle story about the sidhe at the end of Peace; some people also seem to\nlike \"Suzanne Delage\" more than I do." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oolp -- well, if you're going to go that long (I have trouble thinking\nof a couple of these as \"short shorts\") don't neglect \"The Detective of\nDreams,\" my single favorite Lupine text, _period_. OTOH, I would regard \nabout half the ones you name as essentially conceits (\"Peritonitis,\" \n\"The Whip\") or bits of fluff (\"War Beneath,\" maybe \"Useful Phrases\").\n\nMy first reaction to \"Copperhead\" was roughly equivalent to my first \nreaction to several other Lupine shorts, notably the ever-present \n\"Suzanne Delage\": \"Huh?\" \n\nI'm not ashamed to say that I Don't Get It, and (unusual for me with \nWolfe) I'm not at all convinced that \"it\"'s there _to_ get. there's \nbunch of stuff at the beginning that isn't followed up at all; I have \nno idea why the woman with the strange voice from another dimension \nbehaves as she does; and the ending vaguely-out-of-Genesis simply \ndoesn't follow from the story in any way I can perceive. I suspect \nthe whole thing of being to some extent a venting of spleen at \nWm Jefferson Clinton, who doubtless has it coming, but would probably\nnot have a clue that spleen had been vented at him.\n\n--Dan'l\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Russell", "address": "fulthor at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2001-05-07T11:03:12+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) copperhead", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " 001 - William Ansley online \n(spoilers for \"Copperhead\"\nSo, what is \"groose\"? What about \"neffer\" and \"grawnt\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It seems to me that 'neffer' and 'grawnt' are 'never' and 'grunt'. \"You will \nnever grunt over me\" again is Jane Doe denying the President sex, I assumed. \nWhat 'Groose' is supposed to be I dont know. \"Gross\", perhaps?\n\nAlso, with regards to the Short Sun, I was wondering if anyone thought that \nthe inhumi's method of breeding had any bearing on the secret (or even the \ndubious Horn or Silk as inhumi option). Jahlee or Fava, I can't remember \nwhich, claims that the inhumi make love exactly as a man or woman would do, \nbefore moving on to the more technical, amphibious process. I'm sure that \nthis has some bearing on the plot, although I haven't really managed to work \nout what.\n\n On a personal note I haven't contributed to this list before, but have\nbeen lurking for ages. Hello everybody.\n\n---------\nJim Russell\nExeter. UK." } ] } ] }