{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1425", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1425, "subject": "Revelation-BOTLS", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2001-05-29T13:00:28+00:00", "last": "2001-05-30T15:45:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "2001-05-29T15:15:51+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Revelation-BOTLS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is from -Grace Abounding-, the autobiography of John (-Pilgrim's\nProgress-) Bunyan. This happens on a Sunday: \"as I was in the midst of a\ngame of Cat, and having struck it one blow from the Hole, just as I was\nabout to strike it the second time, a Voice did suddenly dart from\nHeaven into my Soul, which said, -Wilt thou leave thy sins and go to\nHeaven, or have thy sins and go to Hell?- At this I was put to an\nexceeding Maze. Wherefore, leaving my Cat upon the ground, I looked up\nto Heaven, and was as if I had, with the Eyes of my understanding, seen\nthe Lord Jesus looking down on me, as being very hotly displeased with\nme, and as if he did severely threaten me with some grievous Punishment\nfor these and other my ungodly Practices.\"\n\nBunyan is famously Protestant, of course, but very famous too. Leaving\naside the accusatory nature of his revelation, doesn't it seem more than\ncoincidence that Silk, too, should be struck just in the middle of a\ngame? The game is called \"tip-cat\" according to the OED and is played\nthus: A small piece of wood tapering at each end, used in the game of\ntip-cat, etc.; it is hit at one end by the cat-stick, and made to spring\nfrom the ground, and then driven away by a side stroke. Bunyan is among\nthe citations.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2001-05-29T13:00:28+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Revelation-BOTLS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga:\n\nThis is cool. Whether or not it is an actual \"reference,\" it's interesting\nto observe a few contrasts - aside from the non-accusatory nature of Silk's\nenlightenment, for example, the fact that Silk then continues and wins his\ngame. I don't know if this is exactly a Catholic difference, but it does\nseem related to Silk's later observation -- from memory, my copy is at home\n-- to the effect that \"perhaps that is what free will is: the grace of being\npermitted to co-operate with what is going to happen anyway.\" There is a\nkind of casualness to Silk's enlightenment, the sense that, okay, he's been\nenlightened, and now everything is different (for him), and yet everything\nis still the same...\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com" }, "date": "2001-05-29T15:20:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Revelation-BOTLS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It certainly seems more than a coincidence! Very interesting.\n\nNutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 03:15 PM 5/29/2001 -0400, you wrote:\nThis is from -Grace Abounding-, the autobiography of John (-Pilgrim's\nProgress-) Bunyan. This happens on a Sunday: \"as I was in the midst of a\ngame of Cat, and having struck it one blow from the Hole, just as I was\nabout to strike it the second time, a Voice did suddenly dart from\nHeaven into my Soul, which said, -Wilt thou leave thy sins and go to\nHeaven, or have thy sins and go to Hell?- At this I was put to an\nexceeding Maze. Wherefore, leaving my Cat upon the ground, I looked up\nto Heaven, and was as if I had, with the Eyes of my understanding, seen\nthe Lord Jesus looking down on me, as being very hotly displeased with\nme, and as if he did severely threaten me with some grievous Punishment\nfor these and other my ungodly Practices.\"\n\nBunyan is famously Protestant, of course, but very famous too. Leaving\naside the accusatory nature of his revelation, doesn't it seem more than\ncoincidence that Silk, too, should be struck just in the middle of a\ngame? The game is called \"tip-cat\" according to the OED and is played\nthus: A small piece of wood tapering at each end, used in the game of\ntip-cat, etc.; it is hit at one end by the cat-stick, and made to spring\nfrom the ground, and then driven away by a side stroke. Bunyan is among\nthe citations.\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Endymion9", "address": "endymion9 at mindspring.com" }, "date": "2001-05-30T15:45:36+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Revelation-BOTLS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Blattid wrote:\nThere is a kind of casualness to Silk's enlightenment, the sense that,\nokay, he's been\nenlightened, and now everything is different (for him), and yet everything\nis still the same..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This seems very accurate from my experience. It shows me that Wolfe knows\nhow *true* enlightment really affects people.\n\n1. Silk is changed and knows he is changed. Althought externally nothing\nhas really changes, it is very hard to shake his belief in what he knows has\nhappened to him because as Christian author/speaker Leonard Ravenhill used\nto say, \"You have your theories, but I've lived it, man!\". Silk sees things\ndifferently now. It's his attitude that is affected.\n\n2. Silk is not intent on explaning his enlightment to others or convincing\nthem to see and experience his enlightment. Althought he can't help talking\nabout it to others due to his excitement, his enlightment is for him and\naffects him. It affects others through his actions, but not through his\nargueing, debating or cajoling others to also accept it.\n\nDennis/Endy\nhttp://home.mindspring.com/~endymion9/index.htm\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }