{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1463", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1463, "subject": "Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2001-06-25T10:08:20+00:00", "last": "2001-06-25T20:47:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Patrick O'Leary", "address": "poleary at cecom.com" }, "date": "2001-06-25T10:08:20+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " On Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Adam Stephanides wrote:\n2) Narr says that \"I cannot correct all or even most of them [his mistakes]\nwithout tearing the whole account to shreds and starting again.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think this is crucial, central.\n\nFor the BOTSS is a story/diary founded a critical mistake.\n\nIt professes to be the Story of Horn in search of Silk.\n\nIt appears to be the diary (hold off on the apendices for the moment) of one man.\n\nIt seems to be a tragedy: the autobiography of a failure.\n\nBut.\n\nIt is actually the story of Silk in search of himself.\n\nIt is the diary of two men (in one body).\n\nThe autobiographer is telling the story of the wrong man!\n\nAnd Horn is not a failure but a hero who cannot credit himself as such without admitting who he is.\n\nThe narrator does not know the story he is telling.\n\nIn fact, the narrator is much invested in his denial, that is: in not knowing the story he tells.\n\nI think much of the narrator's remarks about the \"mistakes/errors\" in the text\ncan be explained by these central paradoxes and his painful quandry: to tell his story\ntruthfully he must admit his self-deception. But he is only safe by clinging to his delusion\nso he continually tosses off wrenching \"truthful\" confessions (His rape of Seawrack, his devil's\nbargain in the\npit with Krait, his adultrous marriages as Raja). It's almost as if he were protesting too much:\n\"I am weak. I am a sinner. I am unworthy of this quest or the Hero I seek.\" Ironically,\ncompulsively\nconfessing to another man's sins to avoid facing his own.\n\nAnd, most critically, these are the truths he dare not confess:\n\"I am dead.\"\n\nOr, more accurately, \"Horn died so that I might live.\nI tried to kill myself.\"\n\nAnd, perhaps, \"Hyacinth is gone forever.\"\n\nFascinating that the truth finally arrives in Confession: Remora shrieves Silk and forgives him for\nnot\nadmitting who he is.\n\nThe Book of The Short Sun is a virtuoso performance of narrative uncertainty and delusion.\n\nThere are intriguing similarities to \"Pale Fire\" (The story of a madman who thinks he's a King, the\nmeglomaniac critic who fancies\nhis analysis worth much more than the Text, and a total misreading of the poem), similar, yes, but\ndifferent.\nFor whatever pomo, self-concious hijinks Wolfe is up to, his novel is never just a tour de force.\nIt is founded\non a moral dimension that Nabokov himself would never approach, never admit to. Thus the cool\nvaguely repellent distance\nwith which we watch him twist his characters like butterflies on pins. Something Wolfe never does.\n\nBut I ramble.\n\nPatrick O'Leary\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Steve Strickland", "address": "sstrickland at satx.rr.com" }, "date": "2001-06-25T20:47:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excellent!\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Patrick O'Leary\" \nTo: \nSent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:08 AM\nSubject: (whorl) Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS\nOn Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Adam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "2) Narr says that \"I cannot correct all or even most of them [his\nmistakes]\nwithout tearing the whole account to shreds and starting again.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think this is crucial, central.\n\nFor the BOTSS is a story/diary founded a critical mistake.\n\nIt professes to be the Story of Horn in search of Silk.\n\nIt appears to be the diary (hold off on the apendices for the moment) of\none man.\n\nIt seems to be a tragedy: the autobiography of a failure.\n\nBut.\n\nIt is actually the story of Silk in search of himself.\n\nIt is the diary of two men (in one body).\n\nThe autobiographer is telling the story of the wrong man!\n\nAnd Horn is not a failure but a hero who cannot credit himself as such\nwithout admitting who he is.\n\nThe narrator does not know the story he is telling.\n\nIn fact, the narrator is much invested in his denial, that is: in not\nknowing the story he tells.\n\nI think much of the narrator's remarks about the \"mistakes/errors\" in the\ntext\ncan be explained by these central paradoxes and his painful quandry: to\ntell his story\ntruthfully he must admit his self-deception. But he is only safe by\nclinging to his delusion\nso he continually tosses off wrenching \"truthful\" confessions (His rape of\nSeawrack, his devil's\nbargain in the\npit with Krait, his adultrous marriages as Raja). It's almost as if he\nwere protesting too much:\n\"I am weak. I am a sinner. I am unworthy of this quest or the Hero I\nseek.\" Ironically,\ncompulsively\nconfessing to another man's sins to avoid facing his own.\n\nAnd, most critically, these are the truths he dare not confess:\n\"I am dead.\"\n\nOr, more accurately, \"Horn died so that I might live.\nI tried to kill myself.\"\n\nAnd, perhaps, \"Hyacinth is gone forever.\"\n\nFascinating that the truth finally arrives in Confession: Remora shrieves\nSilk and forgives him for\nnot\nadmitting who he is.\n\nThe Book of The Short Sun is a virtuoso performance of narrative\nuncertainty and delusion.\n\nThere are intriguing similarities to \"Pale Fire\" (The story of a madman\nwho thinks he's a King, the\nmeglomaniac critic who fancies\nhis analysis worth much more than the Text, and a total misreading of the\npoem), similar, yes, but\ndifferent.\nFor whatever pomo, self-concious hijinks Wolfe is up to, his novel is\nnever just a tour de force.\nIt is founded\non a moral dimension that Nabokov himself would never approach, never\nadmit to. Thus the cool\nvaguely repellent distance\nwith which we watch him twist his characters like butterflies on pins." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Something Wolfe never does." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But I ramble.\n\nPatrick O'Leary\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Steve Strickland", "address": "sstrickland at satx.rr.com" }, "date": "2001-06-25T20:47:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Excellent!\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Patrick O'Leary\" \nTo: \nSent: Monday, June 25, 2001 9:08 AM\nSubject: (whorl) Narrative Mistakes in TBOTSS\nOn Thu, 21 Jun 2001, Adam Stephanides wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "2) Narr says that \"I cannot correct all or even most of them [his\nmistakes]\nwithout tearing the whole account to shreds and starting again.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think this is crucial, central.\n\nFor the BOTSS is a story/diary founded a critical mistake.\n\nIt professes to be the Story of Horn in search of Silk.\n\nIt appears to be the diary (hold off on the apendices for the moment) of\none man.\n\nIt seems to be a tragedy: the autobiography of a failure.\n\nBut.\n\nIt is actually the story of Silk in search of himself.\n\nIt is the diary of two men (in one body).\n\nThe autobiographer is telling the story of the wrong man!\n\nAnd Horn is not a failure but a hero who cannot credit himself as such\nwithout admitting who he is.\n\nThe narrator does not know the story he is telling.\n\nIn fact, the narrator is much invested in his denial, that is: in not\nknowing the story he tells.\n\nI think much of the narrator's remarks about the \"mistakes/errors\" in the\ntext\ncan be explained by these central paradoxes and his painful quandry: to\ntell his story\ntruthfully he must admit his self-deception. But he is only safe by\nclinging to his delusion\nso he continually tosses off wrenching \"truthful\" confessions (His rape of\nSeawrack, his devil's\nbargain in the\npit with Krait, his adultrous marriages as Raja). It's almost as if he\nwere protesting too much:\n\"I am weak. I am a sinner. I am unworthy of this quest or the Hero I\nseek.\" Ironically,\ncompulsively\nconfessing to another man's sins to avoid facing his own.\n\nAnd, most critically, these are the truths he dare not confess:\n\"I am dead.\"\n\nOr, more accurately, \"Horn died so that I might live.\nI tried to kill myself.\"\n\nAnd, perhaps, \"Hyacinth is gone forever.\"\n\nFascinating that the truth finally arrives in Confession: Remora shrieves\nSilk and forgives him for\nnot\nadmitting who he is.\n\nThe Book of The Short Sun is a virtuoso performance of narrative\nuncertainty and delusion.\n\nThere are intriguing similarities to \"Pale Fire\" (The story of a madman\nwho thinks he's a King, the\nmeglomaniac critic who fancies\nhis analysis worth much more than the Text, and a total misreading of the\npoem), similar, yes, but\ndifferent.\nFor whatever pomo, self-concious hijinks Wolfe is up to, his novel is\nnever just a tour de force.\nIt is founded\non a moral dimension that Nabokov himself would never approach, never\nadmit to. Thus the cool\nvaguely repellent distance\nwith which we watch him twist his characters like butterflies on pins." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Something Wolfe never does." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But I ramble.\n\nPatrick O'Leary\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }