{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1465", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1465, "subject": "Chrasmo Writings", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2001-07-03T08:42:00+00:00", "last": "2001-07-03T16:49:14+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T10:29:56+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tWay back at the beginning of all this I provided a long list of gospel \nparallels for the story of Silk. Of course, that's Wolfe's doing. But since \nHorn and Nettle wrote TBLS, and since much of it is pious invention to one \ndegree or another, it follows that either (a) it is an accident that the \nSilk story parallels the story of Jesus, or (b) that Horn and Nettle had a \nversion of the story of Jesus before them as they wrote TBLS, and \ndeliberately crafted Silk as a kind of new messiah. If the latter, which \nseems likely, this means that some version/s of the gospel/s are included \nin the Chrasmo Writings -- which I guess we should expect, but which is \nnowhere made explicit.\n\tFood for thought, or controversy.\n\nPatera Nutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T08:42:00+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nutria wrote:\nWay back at the beginning of all this I provided a long list of\ngospel parallels for the story of Silk. Of course, that's Wolfe's\ndoing. But since Horn and Nettle wrote TBLS, and since much of it is\npious invention to one degree or another, it follows that either\n(a) it is an accident that the Silk story parallels the story of Jesus,\nor (b) that Horn and Nettle had a version of the story of Jesus before\nthem as they wrote TBLS, and deliberately crafted Silk as a kind of\nnew messiah. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or, (c), the pattern of the Messiah-story is deeply ingrained in the\n\"collective unconciousness\" or the nature of the human soul or, uh,\nwhatever.\n\nBut in support of (b), \n\ti. The (fairly few) quotes from the Chrasmological Writings\n\t actually offered to us are, I believe, either quotes from\n\t real Scripture (though not necessary the Hebrew-Christian\n\t Scriptures) or variants thereon. I believe the bit\n\t about daubing the raven comes from Jeremiah, for example.\n\tii.Silk actually talks (or maybe thinks) about a man back on \n\t the Short Sun Whorl who was both enlightened and possessed\n\t by the Outsider and was crucified. Presumably this would\n\t come either form the CWs or -- uh, where else?\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T09:46:26+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- James Jordan wrote:\n\tWay back at the beginning of all this I provided a\nlong list of gospel \nparallels for the story of Silk. Of course, that's\nWolfe's doing. But since \nHorn and Nettle wrote TBLS, and since much of it is\npious invention to one \ndegree or another, it follows that either (a) it is\nan accident that the \nSilk story parallels the story of Jesus, or (b) that\nHorn and Nettle had a \nversion of the story of Jesus before them as they\nwrote TBLS, and \ndeliberately crafted Silk as a kind of new messiah.\nIf the latter, which \nseems likely, this means that some version/s of the\ngospel/s are included \nin the Chrasmo Writings -- which I guess we should\nexpect, but which is \nnowhere made explicit.\n\tFood for thought, or controversy.\n\nPatera Nutria" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or the Outsider has been taking a hand--when he\nenlightened Silk, or just in general, the way he makes\nsure that auguries and Gaonese astrologers provide\ncorrect prophecies or that Chrasmological\nbibliomancies provide good advice. (Unless you\nbelieve all that stuff was put in by Horn\nretroactively.)\n\nThe Outsider may also have been at work influencing\nthe \"Chrasmologists\", incidentally. Dare I say\n\"inspiring\"?\n\nAlso, Typhon was apparently a contemporary of the\nConciliator, so messianic messages may have been\nfamiliar to him and his sprats and the early\nChrasmologists.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at home.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T13:12:25+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also, Typhon was apparently a contemporary of the\nConciliator, so messianic messages may have been\nfamiliar to him and his sprats and the early\nChrasmologists.\n\nJerry Friedman" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I've taken it that time-travelling Severian was the Conciliator. We \nalso have reference in the Memoirs of Severian to the \"theoanthropos,\" and \nI think He predated the Conciliator by many thousands of years. FWIW.\n\nNutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T12:09:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "IIRC, Rostrum proved that the most extended bits of the Writings that we\nhave are straight from Marcus Aurelius. Not the allusions to items, but\nthe actual text we have. The Writings are the usual \"grab bag\" of things.\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nHas Moved To\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2001-07-03T16:49:14+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Chrasmo Writings", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wrote" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "IIRC, Rostrum proved that the most extended bits of the Writings that we\nhave are straight from Marcus Aurelius." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And as I sent it, I said \"Doh!\"\n\nNo, not Rostrum--it was Charles Dye (aka raster) who nicely showed the links.\n\nMy apologies for the mistake!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nHas Moved To\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }