Subject: Beast with Three Horns / Pike as Father of Blood

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:21:41 +0000

First, I'd like to say I think I found something pretty cool, but I'm not sure 
if its been discussed before.  It's weird, but there is a ton of evidence for 
it (or at least a little bit that is hard to ignore).

First, off the main topic for just a second: Wolfe said Patera Pike was 
Blood's Father.  Besides the common sense interpretation, "Who else could get 
Rose pregnant?", there is only one or two direct pieces of evidence.  She 
watches Marble and Silk as they talk in Nightside the long sun, but I think 
the following passage from page 27 of my paperback edition shows the weird 
leaps in logic Silk can make:
"He had at first called Blood sir (italics), and afterward, my son (italics), 
himself scarcely conscious of the change.  But why?  Sir because Blood had 
been riding in a floater of course; only the richest of men could afford to 
own floaters.  My son (italics) afterward. "The old cull's dead, then? ... It 
doesn't make a bad bit's difference to us, does it, Patera? ... Nice of him."

Thinking of Blood as my son conjures the remembrance of Blood's treatment of 
Patera Pike.  We must admit that that is a very insubstantial clue.  Thinking 
of  the words "my son" in conjunction with Pike's memory is about all the 
textual support we can find for identifying his father as Pike.

What I am about to explore involves a lot more textual evidence, but its very 
weird.  Have we talked about it before here?

The prophecy Maytera Marble gives Horn in Chapter Three of On blue's Waters 
says 
"'I see long journeys, fear, hunger and cold, and feverish heat  Then 
darkness.  Then more darkness and a great wind.  Wealth and command.  I see 
you, Horn, riding upon a beast with three horns.' (She actually said this)" 
(pg 52 of SFBC Book of the Short Sun, pages different from Tor editions)

Incidentally, this is where Horn picks up Babbie for the first time.

Ok, then we get that weird scene at the very end of On blue's Waters where
"someone on shore called again, for Babbie, and I understood that he mant me; 
it never so much as occurred to me then that I had sometimes been called 
"Silk" or "Horn." He who called me seemed quite near, and he called me with 
more urgency than Sewrack ever has." (221 of SFBC BOTSS) ..."Goodbye again 
Nettle.  I have always loved you.  Good-bye, Sinew, my son.  [more good-byes 
to everybody]...I found him in the forest, sitting in the dark under the 
trees.  I could not see him.  It was too dark to see anything.  But I knelt 
beside him and laid my head upon his knee, and he comforted me." (222)

Ok, so someone calling for Babbie was really calling for Horn.  We have often 
noted that there is a big change between the narrator in On Blue's Waters when 
he is very depressed and at the beginning of In Green's Jungles.  I believe 
that this is the point that some of Horn's spirit flees into Babbie (across a 
great distance, just as it fled into Silk from a great distance).

Here is further evidence, from chapter 17 of Return to the Whorl, when Babbie 
undertakes Astral travel with Silk and Hoof (Hoof is the narrator):
"Our boat was water, and Babbie was a hairy man with thick arms and real big 
shoulders, and glasses, and a couple of Babbie's eyes." (707)
""It's me Babbie.  It's Hoof' ...Something hapened then that surprised me as 
much as just about anything I saw on the Red Sun Whorl, except for the part 
right at the last.  Becuase Babbie threw his arms around me and gave me a 
great big hug, saying "huh! huh! huh!" and lifted me off my feet.  Babbie's 
arms were shorter than mine, but thicker than my legs, and he was the 
strongest person I ever met." (712).  
The Huh Huh Huh could be either an attempt to say Hoof or Horn, and later:
"Babbie was pointing to his mouth. "Huh-huh-huh." ...Father knew right away 
what he wanted.  He gave Babbie a big curved knigfe with a double-edged blade, 
and then another one just like it, telling him he had to be careful how he 
used them."
Babbie points at where his horns (and I looked up Horn in the dictionary to be 
sure it could be used for Tusks)used to be and says huh huh huh just as before 
he tried to say Horn but could only get out huh huh huh.

Horn rides a Beast with Three Horns! Two are tusks, and one is Horn himself! 
Have we discussed this before?  At the end of On blue's Waters when Horn says 
goodbye, part of his spirit goes into Babbie, and that is the change in him 
from one book to the next.  I'm so sure of this right now.  Babbie recognized 
his son and joyfully hugged him.  Pretty cool, huh?

---

From: James Jordan <jbjordan4 at home.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:44:14 +0000

>beside him and laid my head upon his knee, and he comforted me." (222)

         The rest of your post is interesting, and you may be right, but at 
present I'm more inclined to think this was a Neighbor calling to Horn as a 
"baby." I don't see evidence that Horn can "transmigrate his soul" in any 
way apart from Neighborly help. Maybe I'm forgetting something. Doesn't he 
only have such astral visitations and transportations when in contact with 
a Neighbor or a Neighborly artifact (such as an inhumu)?
         I thought of Horn as like a Babbie to the Neighbors, just as 
astrally Babbie is a kind of subhuman man (a baby) to Horn/Silk.
         But I don't have any thoughts on the 3-horned beast. Your 
hypothesis is interesting, to say the least. The Harlot in Revelation rules 
over the earth on a 10-horned beast, often taken to mean 10 nations (i.e., 
10 parts of the Roman Empire -- though I don't think this is the right 
interpretation). Doesn't Horn(/Silk) rule, one way or another, successively 
over three nations of Blue?

Nutria

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:13:07 +0000

> great distance, just as it fled into Silk from a great distance).

Problems with this theory:

1.  Horn is able to leave his body for Silk's because the Neighbors
specifically offer him that opportunity (and maybe because he's wearing a
magic ring).  And not just because the Neighbor thinks it would be fun for
Horn's spirit to be able to flit around, but for the purpose of healing
Silk.  Why should Horn's spirit be moved to Babbie?  Why would Horn
consent?

2.  If Horn's spirit has moved to Babbie, why does the Narrator experience
and write about being called?  That would be the experience of the spirit
that is no long in the Narrator.  I think something else is going on
there.  The Narrator is having an encounter with someone who is to the
Narrator as the Narrator is to Babbie (the Outsider?).  This encounter
heals the Narrator somewhat, bringing Silk's spirit further forward.

3.  Babbie doesn't have a human-looking spirit because of Horn.  As
Seawrack notes, Babbie is already a person when Horn and Seawrack are
traveling with him.  It's one of those things Horn refuses to see, as he
refuses to see how much Sinew really loves him.  Babbie has a
human-looking spirit for the same reason that Oreb and the inhumi have
human-looking spirits.  (Note also that Babbie becomes more of a person as
he spends time with people and Seawrack predicts he will revert to being a
mere beast if Horn leaves him in the jungle -- note parallels with
inhumi).

-Rostrum