{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1518", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1518, "subject": "Exodus from the Long Sun", "messages": 8, "voices": 4, "first": "2002-01-04T12:12:49+00:00", "last": "2002-01-05T19:42:29+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Huw Foster", "address": "huw.foster at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T12:12:49+00:00", "subject": "Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi\nI'm reading my way through the Long Sun series for the first time, just\nfinishing 'Exodus..' and I have a brief query. Towards the end of Chap.13\nwhere Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative suddenly becomes\nfirst person - \"At that moment I burst into the room...\" This is\nobviously Horn, but this first person narration is not repeated. Is this\ndeliberate, an error or was the book originally written in the first person\nand altered before publication? I would guess that this subject has been\ndiscussed before but I'm not sure how to effectively search the archives.\nAlso, I find it almost impossible to understand the remarks made by the\ncatachrest. Here's an example, \"Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred.\"\nCan anyone provide the key to understanding Tick? Is it me being absolutely\nthick or is Wolfe being a little unfair here?\nTIA\nHuw" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jason Voegele", "address": "jason at jvoegele.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T13:46:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hi\nI'm reading my way through the Long Sun series for the first time, just\nfinishing 'Exodus..' and I have a brief query. Towards the end of\nChap.13 where Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative\nsuddenly becomes first person - \"At that moment I burst into the\nroom...\" This is obviously Horn, but this first person narration is\nnot repeated. Is this deliberate, an error or was the book originally\nwritten in the first person and altered before publication?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator \nof the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " I would\nguess that this subject has been discussed before but I'm not sure how\nto effectively search the archives. Also, I find it almost impossible\nto understand the remarks made by the catachrest. Here's an example,\n\"Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred.\" Can anyone provide the key to\nunderstanding Tick? Is it me being absolutely thick or is Wolfe being\na little unfair here?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above \ntranslates to \"Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared.\"\n\nSomeone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, \nwhich you should be able to find in the archives somewhere.\n\nJason Voegele" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Huw Foster", "address": "huw.foster at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T15:33:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for this reply, Jason...\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Jason Voegele\" \nThis is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator\nof the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is\nnot in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it\nwas Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or\nwas it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at\nthose archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be\nfound' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the\nright site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my\nway round yet!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above\ntranslates to \"Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why couldn't I see that?!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases,\nwhich you should be able to find in the archives somewhere." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'll look forward to reading that....\nThanks again\nHuw" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Huw Foster", "address": "huw.foster at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T15:33:55+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for this reply, Jason...\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Jason Voegele\" \nThis is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator\nof the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is\nnot in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it\nwas Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or\nwas it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at\nthose archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be\nfound' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the\nright site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my\nway round yet!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above\ntranslates to \"Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Why couldn't I see that?!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases,\nwhich you should be able to find in the archives somewhere." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'll look forward to reading that....\nThanks again\nHuw" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jason Voegele", "address": "jason at jvoegele.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T16:16:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "----- Original Message -----\nFrom: \"Jason Voegele\" \nThis is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the\nnarrator of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;)\n\nIf so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book\nis not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say\nthat it was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe\nhas said or was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Keep reading :)\n\nIn \"On Blue's Waters\", Horn discusses the manner in which he put together \nthe narrative based on conversations with people who *were* there." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I\nwould like to get at those archives and read up on this but I keep\ngetting 'the page cannot be found' when I connect to \nhttp://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the right site? I've\nonly recently joined the list so haven't quite found my way round yet!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The lists are moving to a different server, from what I understand. And \nthey are being unified into a single list. The archives are temporarily \nunavailable, but will be back soon." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the\nabove translates to \"Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why couldn't I see that?!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It takes practice :)\n\nJason Voegele" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases,\nwhich you should be able to find in the archives somewhere." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'll look forward to reading that...." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at siriusfiction.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T16:43:41+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello there Huw,\n\nWelcome aboard! We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move\ncompleted at his earliest convenience, and we thank him for hosting this\nwhole thing for so many years. Hooray!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Huw responding to Jason wrote:\nFrom: \"Jason Voegele\" \nThis is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator\nof the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;)\n\nIf so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is\nnot in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it\nwas Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or\nwas it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at\nthose archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be\nfound' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the\nright site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my\nway round yet!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We discussed it a lot because we (well, those who were discussing!) loved\nit a lot, and retrospectively it (that one sentence) heralds much of the\nsequel-series, THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN.\n\nIt seemed like everybody and his brother was telling Wolfe in letters or in\nconversations how much they liked that one bit, and I don't recall him ever\nsaying it was a mistake. All told, it certainly does not =seem= like a\nmistake.\n\nOTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months\nago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG\nSUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much\nbeloved line had been changed from the first person \"I\" to the third\nperson.\n\nMaybe Patrick was just joking? I have not yet tracked the text down,\nespecially since the idea of such a change makes me sad." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above\ntranslates to \"Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Why couldn't I see that?!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases,\nwhich you should be able to find in the archives somewhere." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, that someone is vizcacha, and he did a lot of translation work for all\nof us. Hooray!\n\n=mantis=\n\n\nSirius Fiction\nbooklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley\nhttp://www.siriusfiction.com/" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tom Foster", "address": "t.foster2 at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-01-04T18:04:10+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello everyone!\n\nI tried to post to this group whilst re-reading TBOTLS a couple of months\nago, but was unable to do so for some strange reason. I read a lot of the\narchived discussions back then, but since I have finally got it going, I\nthought this might be a good time to introduce myself and make my first\npost..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Michael Andre-Driussi\" wrote:\nOTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months\nago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG\nSUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much\nbeloved line had been changed from the first person \"I\" to the third\nperson.\n\nMaybe Patrick was just joking? I have not yet tracked the text down,\nespecially since the idea of such a change makes me sad." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Patrick was quite correct apparently - I just got out my 'Epiphany of the\nLong Sun' omnibus edition to check and there it is - on pp608, line 19: \"At\nthat moment Horn burst into the room...\" I have read TBOTLS twice, but both\ntimes I read the individual NEL books rather than the omnibuses, which I\nbought recently as the individual books were starting to look tatty. I'm\nglad that I read the separate volumes, otherwise this change would probably\nhave escaped me. I must admit that when I re-read EXODUS, that line really\nstood out and did seem out of place somewhat, though I appreciate Wolfe's\nreasons for slipping it in, so to speak.\n\nAnyway, I'm hoping that the members of this group might be able to help me\nout with a few queries of my own regarding certain events in EXODUS... I\njust need to get them all into a coherent post!\n\n\nTom" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Huw Foster", "address": "huw.foster at ntlworld.com" }, "date": "2002-01-05T19:42:29+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Exodus from the Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Michael Andre-Driussi\" \nTo: \nHello there Huw,\n\nWelcome aboard! We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks. Glad to have found this list............" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "OTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months\nago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG\nSUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much\nbeloved line had been changed from the first person \"I\" to the third\nperson." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That would appear to be the case, but I would rather believe that this is a\nmistake - some smart proof-reader having altered it erroneously while\ncongratulating himself on attention to detail! (\"Ha, they never spotted THAT\nin the NEL edition...\")\n\nHuw" } ] } ] }