Subject: Exodus from the Long Sun

From: Huw Foster <huw.foster at ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:12:49 +0000

Hi
I'm reading my way through the Long Sun series for the first time, just
finishing 'Exodus..'  and I have a brief query.  Towards the end of Chap.13
where Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative suddenly becomes
first person -     "At that moment I burst into the room..."  This is
obviously Horn, but this first person narration is not repeated.  Is this
deliberate, an error or was the book originally written in the first person
and altered before publication?  I would guess that this subject has been
discussed before but I'm not sure how to effectively search the archives.
Also, I find it almost impossible to understand the remarks made by the
catachrest.  Here's an example, "Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred."
Can anyone provide the key to understanding Tick?  Is it me being absolutely
thick or is Wolfe being a little unfair here?
TIA
Huw

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From: Jason Voegele <jason at jvoegele.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:46:56 +0000

> finishing 'Exodus..'  and I have a brief query.  Towards the end of
> Chap.13 where Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative
> suddenly becomes first person -     "At that moment I burst into the
> room..."  This is obviously Horn, but this first person narration is
> not repeated.  Is this deliberate, an error or was the book originally
> written in the first person and altered before publication?

This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator 
of the book.  And yes, it has been discussed. ;)

>  I would
> guess that this subject has been discussed before but I'm not sure how
> to effectively search the archives. Also, I find it almost impossible
> to understand the remarks made by the catachrest.  Here's an example,
> "Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred." Can anyone provide the key to
> understanding Tick?  Is it me being absolutely thick or is Wolfe being
> a little unfair here?

I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above 
translates to "Bad, bad bird!  Lady, don't be scared."

Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, 
which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere.

Jason Voegele

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From: Huw Foster <huw.foster at ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:33:55 +0000

Thanks for this reply, Jason...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Voegele" <jason at jvoegele.com>
> of the book.  And yes, it has been discussed. ;)

If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is
not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative.  When you say that it
was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or
was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here?  I would like to get at
those archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be
found' when I connect to  http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/   Am I going to the
right site?  I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my
way round yet!

> translates to "Bad, bad bird!  Lady, don't be scared."

Why couldn't I see that?!

> which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere.

I'll look forward to reading that....
Thanks again
Huw

---

From: Huw Foster <huw.foster at ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 15:33:55 +0000

---

From: Jason Voegele <jason at jvoegele.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:16:47 +0000

>> This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the
>> narrator of the book.  And yes, it has been discussed. ;)
> 
> If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book
> is not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative.  When you say
> that it was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe
> has said or was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here?

Keep reading :)

In "On Blue's Waters", Horn discusses the manner in which he put together 
the narrative based on conversations with people who *were* there.

> I
> would like to get at those archives and read up on this but I keep
> getting 'the page cannot be found' when I connect to 
> http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/   Am I going to the right site?  I've
> only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my way round yet!

The lists are moving to a different server, from what I understand.  And 
they are being unified into a single list.  The archives are temporarily 
unavailable, but will be back soon.

>>
>> I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the
>> above translates to "Bad, bad bird!  Lady, don't be scared."
> 

It takes practice :)

Jason Voegele

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From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at siriusfiction.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:43:41 +0000

Hello there Huw,

Welcome aboard!  We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move
completed at his earliest convenience, and we thank him for hosting this
whole thing for so many years.  Hooray!

>right site?  I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my

We discussed it a lot because we (well, those who were discussing!) loved
it a lot, and retrospectively it (that one sentence) heralds much of the
sequel-series, THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN.

It seemed like everybody and his brother was telling Wolfe in letters or in
conversations how much they liked that one bit, and I don't recall him ever
saying it was a mistake.  All told, it certainly does not =seem= like a
mistake.

OTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months
ago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG
SUN, I think it was the omnibus edition?  Anyway, he said that the much
beloved line had been changed from the first person "I" to the third
person.

Maybe Patrick was just joking?  I have not yet tracked the text down,
especially since the idea of such a change makes me sad.

>> which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere.

Yes, that someone is vizcacha, and he did a lot of translation work for all
of us.  Hooray!

=mantis=

Sirius Fiction
booklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley
http://www.siriusfiction.com/

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From: Tom Foster <t.foster2 at ntlworld.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:04:10 +0000

Hello everyone!

I tried to post to this group whilst re-reading TBOTLS a couple of months
ago, but was unable to do so for some strange reason.  I read a lot of the
archived discussions back then, but since I have finally got it going, I
thought this might be a good time to introduce myself and make my first
post...

> especially since the idea of such a change makes me sad.

Patrick was quite correct apparently - I just got out my 'Epiphany of the
Long Sun' omnibus edition to check and there it is - on pp608, line 19: "At
that moment Horn burst into the room..."  I have read TBOTLS twice, but both
times I read the individual NEL books rather than the omnibuses, which I
bought recently as the individual books were starting to look tatty. I'm
glad that I read the separate volumes, otherwise this change would probably
have escaped me. I must admit that when I re-read EXODUS, that line really
stood out and did seem out of place somewhat, though I appreciate Wolfe's
reasons for slipping it in, so to speak.

Anyway, I'm hoping that the members of this group might be able to help me
out with a few queries of my own regarding certain events in EXODUS...  I
just need to get them all into a coherent post!

Tom

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From: Huw Foster <huw.foster at ntlworld.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:42:29 +0000

> Welcome aboard!  We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move

Thanks.  Glad to have found this list............

> beloved line had been changed from the first person "I" to the third

That would appear to be the case, but I would rather believe that this is a
mistake - some smart proof-reader having altered it erroneously while
congratulating himself on attention to detail! ("Ha, they never spotted THAT
in the NEL edition...")

Huw