# Exodus from the Long Sun *The Whorl list — 8 messages, 4 voices, 04 Jan 2002* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Huw Foster *04 Jan 2002, 12:12* Hi I'm reading my way through the Long Sun series for the first time, just finishing 'Exodus..' and I have a brief query. Towards the end of Chap.13 where Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative suddenly becomes first person - "At that moment I burst into the room..." This is obviously Horn, but this first person narration is not repeated. Is this deliberate, an error or was the book originally written in the first person and altered before publication? I would guess that this subject has been discussed before but I'm not sure how to effectively search the archives. Also, I find it almost impossible to understand the remarks made by the catachrest. Here's an example, "Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred." Can anyone provide the key to understanding Tick? Is it me being absolutely thick or is Wolfe being a little unfair here? TIA Huw --- ### Jason Voegele *04 Jan 2002, 13:46 · follows Huw Foster* > Hi > I'm reading my way through the Long Sun series for the first time, just > finishing 'Exodus..' and I have a brief query. Towards the end of > Chap.13 where Silk is dining with Potto, Loris et al, the narrative > suddenly becomes first person - "At that moment I burst into the > room..." This is obviously Horn, but this first person narration is > not repeated. Is this deliberate, an error or was the book originally > written in the first person and altered before publication? This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;) > I would > guess that this subject has been discussed before but I'm not sure how > to effectively search the archives. Also, I find it almost impossible > to understand the remarks made by the catachrest. Here's an example, > "Add, add word! Laddie, done by scarred." Can anyone provide the key to > understanding Tick? Is it me being absolutely thick or is Wolfe being > a little unfair here? I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above translates to "Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared." Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere. Jason Voegele --- ### Huw Foster *04 Jan 2002, 15:33 · follows Jason Voegele* Thanks for this reply, Jason... ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Voegele" > This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator > of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;) If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at those archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be found' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the right site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my way round yet! > I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above > translates to "Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared." Why couldn't I see that?! > Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, > which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere. I'll look forward to reading that.... Thanks again Huw --- ### Huw Foster *04 Jan 2002, 15:33 · follows Huw Foster* Thanks for this reply, Jason... ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Voegele" > This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator > of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;) If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at those archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be found' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the right site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my way round yet! > I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above > translates to "Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared." Why couldn't I see that?! > Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, > which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere. I'll look forward to reading that.... Thanks again Huw --- ### Jason Voegele *04 Jan 2002, 16:16 · follows Huw Foster* > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason Voegele" > This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the > narrator of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;) > > If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book > is not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say > that it was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe > has said or was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? Keep reading :) In "On Blue's Waters", Horn discusses the manner in which he put together the narrative based on conversations with people who *were* there. > I > would like to get at those archives and read up on this but I keep > getting 'the page cannot be found' when I connect to > http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the right site? I've > only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my way round yet! The lists are moving to a different server, from what I understand. And they are being unified into a single list. The archives are temporarily unavailable, but will be back soon. >> I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the >> above translates to "Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared." > Why couldn't I see that?! It takes practice :) Jason Voegele >> Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, >> which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere. > I'll look forward to reading that.... --- ### Michael Andre-Driussi *04 Jan 2002, 16:43 · follows Jason Voegele* Hello there Huw, Welcome aboard! We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move completed at his earliest convenience, and we thank him for hosting this whole thing for so many years. Hooray! > Huw responding to Jason wrote: > From: "Jason Voegele" > This is Wolfe's (intentional) ploy to clue us in that Horn is the narrator > of the book. And yes, it has been discussed. ;) > > If so I'm not sure I understand the ploy too well - so much of the book is > not in the presence of Horn and would be speculative. When you say that it > was Wolfe's intention to clue us, was that something that Wolfe has said or > was it a conclusion arrived at in discussions here? I would like to get at > those archives and read up on this but I keep getting 'the page cannot be > found' when I connect to http://www.moonmilk.com/whorl/ Am I going to the > right site? I've only recently joined the list so haven't quite found my > way round yet! We discussed it a lot because we (well, those who were discussing!) loved it a lot, and retrospectively it (that one sentence) heralds much of the sequel-series, THE BOOK OF THE SHORT SUN. It seemed like everybody and his brother was telling Wolfe in letters or in conversations how much they liked that one bit, and I don't recall him ever saying it was a mistake. All told, it certainly does not =seem= like a mistake. OTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months ago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much beloved line had been changed from the first person "I" to the third person. Maybe Patrick was just joking? I have not yet tracked the text down, especially since the idea of such a change makes me sad. >> I had a lot of trouble understanding Tick as well, but I think the above >> translates to "Bad, bad bird! Lady, don't be scared." > Why couldn't I see that?! >> Someone here went to the effort of translating many of Tick's phrases, >> which you should be able to find in the archives somewhere. Yes, that someone is vizcacha, and he did a lot of translation work for all of us. Hooray! =mantis= Sirius Fiction booklets on Gene Wolfe, John Crowley http://www.siriusfiction.com/ --- ### Tom Foster *04 Jan 2002, 18:04 · follows Michael Andre-Driussi* Hello everyone! I tried to post to this group whilst re-reading TBOTLS a couple of months ago, but was unable to do so for some strange reason. I read a lot of the archived discussions back then, but since I have finally got it going, I thought this might be a good time to introduce myself and make my first post... > "Michael Andre-Driussi" wrote: > OTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months > ago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG > SUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much > beloved line had been changed from the first person "I" to the third > person. > > Maybe Patrick was just joking? I have not yet tracked the text down, > especially since the idea of such a change makes me sad. Patrick was quite correct apparently - I just got out my 'Epiphany of the Long Sun' omnibus edition to check and there it is - on pp608, line 19: "At that moment Horn burst into the room..." I have read TBOTLS twice, but both times I read the individual NEL books rather than the omnibuses, which I bought recently as the individual books were starting to look tatty. I'm glad that I read the separate volumes, otherwise this change would probably have escaped me. I must admit that when I re-read EXODUS, that line really stood out and did seem out of place somewhat, though I appreciate Wolfe's reasons for slipping it in, so to speak. Anyway, I'm hoping that the members of this group might be able to help me out with a few queries of my own regarding certain events in EXODUS... I just need to get them all into a coherent post! Tom --- ### Huw Foster *05 Jan 2002, 19:42 · follows Tom Foster* > From: "Michael Andre-Driussi" > To: > Hello there Huw, > > Welcome aboard! We hope and trust that ranjit will have the list-move Thanks. Glad to have found this list............ > OTOH, Patrick O'Leary (one of the original posters on TBOTLS) some months > ago told me that he was reading another edition of THE BOOK OF THE LONG > SUN, I think it was the omnibus edition? Anyway, he said that the much > beloved line had been changed from the first person "I" to the third > person. That would appear to be the case, but I would rather believe that this is a mistake - some smart proof-reader having altered it erroneously while congratulating himself on attention to detail! ("Ha, they never spotted THAT in the NEL edition...") Huw ---