{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1524", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1524, "subject": "doubling of limbs, spirits in branches", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2002-01-08T03:54:43+00:00", "last": "2002-01-08T12:17:28+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-01-08T03:54:43+00:00", "subject": "doubling of limbs, spirits in branches", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I want to thank Andy R. and Michael Andre-Druissi for at least looking at that \nBlue as Ushas time-travel theory, and at least considering it. Yes, I think \nTyphon wanted loyal subjects to repopulate the Urth after its (virtual) \ndestruction (perhaps he had some presentiment of the world's future - he knew \nenough to want the conciliator to serve him when he returned) and so sent the \nwhorl on a big circular sojourn. After all, Patera Remorah will serve Pas' \npurpose and actually WILL bring Pas to Blue, as is foretold in Silk's final \naugury - they are building a window for Pas now. Typhon has found a way to \nrule Urth long after his defeat. The biggest problem is the doubling of limbs, \nthat Andy so cogently brings up. That bugs me, too.\n \nAll right, this is my best shot: the native inhabitants have adapted to their \nenvironment, and these mutations have happened quickly and vegetatively. In \nother words, I think that the liana vines (which is the narrator's staff and \nis the creature that makes him sick by always biting him) and the big trees \nthat they live off of are somehow the vanished people and a primitive form of \nthe inhumu. The trees have branched out and adapted by eating animals and \nbecoming more like them (note how scared Horn is of the trees on Green when he \ndescribes them on Blue's waters as the most terrifying thing he ever \nencountered, which no one will believe), replacing all indigineous life, but \nwhy the limbs are doubled instead of tripled (or some other mutation) \nabsolutely escapes me. But they are identifiable, in some part, as analogs of \nanimals that once dwelt on Urth - there are crocodiles and some other species \nthat have become multi-limbed. I think that those trees are important, they \nkeep popping up. But like I say, there are a lot of problems with my theory \nthat may perhaps relegate it to \"just a theory\" for a while. As Nutria \nposits, the vanished people, if vegetable in nature, closely resemble the \ngreen man that guides Severian. I really think that the Malrubius/Silk \nconnection bears a lot further exploration, as well. \nThe time travel is DEFINITELY debatable - thanks for considering it, guys. On \nthe other hand, I am confident that Silk's staff is a liana, that the huge \ntrees that compose a few of the islands of Blue are actually somehow the \nvanished people (they are like spirits in the trees), that some of Horn flees \ninto Babbie at the end of On Blue's Waters, and that Chenille is on Blue in a \ndrunken stupor mourning her children when Jahlee happens to feed on her (in \nLake of the Long Sun, a big deal is made of Chenille's huge drinking problem - \nand Jahlee says she feasts on a \"big woman\" and her speech is slurred as if \ndrunk). If you recall, Sinew had the ring that (the original) Horn died with, \nand then may have sent it with Chenille after he repaired the lander, or she \nmay have escaped with it. I am also 100% certain that Seawrack is a spy and \nPig is a godling (I cheated on those.)\nThe idea that the vanished people and their animals are spirits that intersect \na different dimension also might account for some kind of weird doubling: how \ndo animals appear when they intersect another plane of existence (or a higher \ndimension)? Of course, maybe cacogens dropped a few multi-limbed beasts down \nto keep humanity company as they evolved into multi-limbed vanished people. \n(and how do we account for the odd scene where the Neighbor names himself as \nHorn? That seems to imply that they are very similar - and He-pen-sheep, when \nasked who the Neighbors are, points at Horn (perhaps not entirely because of \nhis ring).)\nI'll try to find more evidence one way or the other... hmmm.\nAlso, something to watch out for- we know that the gods are fleeing into \nanimals and down to Blue, and that Silk kills the bird Heirax by dumping him \noff a roof in Nightside the Long Sun. In Return to the Whorl, Silk (in Pig) \nasserts that Heirax is dead. Could any animal that the narrator has killed in \nself defense or sacrificed have been (the god) Heirax? And if my theory that \nSalica's first story parallels the scene where Silk describes the statue of \nthe Gods to Pig and Hound, (remember the meanings of the Italian names? \nHelmet=Sphigx, Soldier=Pig, Strego=Silk, Bird=Scylla, Joy=Phea, \nSolemnity=Molpe, Salica=? (Echidna? her statue was discussed there - maybe \nThyone...)then Heirax parallels the death adder that died and continued to \nkill EVERYBODY with a fragment of himself until they find him in a boot and \nremove his fang. (it's weird how only a few of the statues are described in \nthe scene, and those ones match up nicely with the names from Salica's story.) \nJust something small that might make more sense of the struggle going on in \nMainframe.\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-01-08T12:17:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) doubling of limbs, spirits in branches", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 08/01/2002 03:54:43 maa32 wrote:\nThe biggest problem is the doubling of limbs,\nthat Andy so cogently brings up. That bugs me, too." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Methinks a chat with Richard of Occam would be good for you. :-)\n\n\n\nMatthew" } ] } ] }