Subject: doubling of limbs, spirits in branches

From: maa32 <maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu>
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 03:54:43 +0000

I want to thank Andy R. and Michael Andre-Druissi for at least looking at that 
Blue as Ushas time-travel theory, and at least considering it.  Yes, I think 
Typhon wanted loyal subjects to repopulate the Urth after its (virtual) 
destruction (perhaps he had some presentiment of the world's future - he knew 
enough to want the conciliator to serve him when he returned) and so sent the 
whorl on a big circular sojourn. After all, Patera Remorah will serve Pas' 
purpose and actually WILL bring Pas to Blue, as is foretold in Silk's final 
augury - they are building a window for Pas now.  Typhon has found a way to 
rule Urth long after his defeat. The biggest problem is the doubling of limbs, 
that Andy so cogently brings up.  That bugs me, too.
  
All right, this is my best shot: the native inhabitants have adapted to their 
environment, and these mutations have happened quickly and vegetatively.  In 
other words, I think that the liana vines (which is the narrator's staff and 
is the creature that makes him sick by always biting him) and the big trees 
that they live off of are somehow the vanished people and a primitive form of 
the inhumu.  The trees have branched out and adapted by eating animals and 
becoming more like them (note how scared Horn is of the trees on Green when he 
describes them on Blue's waters as the most terrifying thing he ever 
encountered, which no one will believe), replacing all indigineous life, but 
why the limbs are doubled instead of tripled (or some other mutation) 
absolutely escapes me. But they are identifiable, in some part, as analogs of 
animals that once dwelt on Urth - there are crocodiles and some other species 
that have become multi-limbed.  I think that those trees are important, they 
keep popping up.  But like I say, there are a lot of problems with my theory 
that may perhaps relegate it to "just a theory" for a while.  As Nutria 
posits, the vanished people, if vegetable in nature, closely resemble the 
green man that guides Severian.  I really think that the Malrubius/Silk 
connection bears a lot further exploration, as well.  
The time travel is DEFINITELY debatable - thanks for considering it, guys. On 
the other hand, I am confident that Silk's staff is a liana, that the huge 
trees that compose a few of the islands of Blue are actually somehow the 
vanished people (they are like spirits in the trees), that some of Horn flees 
into Babbie at the end of On Blue's Waters, and that Chenille is on Blue in a 
drunken stupor mourning her children when Jahlee happens to feed on her (in 
Lake of the Long Sun, a big deal is made of Chenille's huge drinking problem - 
and Jahlee says she feasts on a "big woman" and her speech is slurred as if 
drunk). If you recall, Sinew had the ring that (the original) Horn died with, 
and then may have sent it with Chenille after he repaired the lander, or she 
may have escaped with it. I am also 100% certain that Seawrack is a spy and 
Pig is a godling (I cheated on those.)
The idea that the vanished people and their animals are spirits that intersect 
a different dimension also might account for some kind of weird doubling: how 
do animals appear when they intersect another plane of existence (or a higher 
dimension)? Of course, maybe cacogens dropped a few multi-limbed beasts down 
to keep humanity company as they evolved into multi-limbed vanished people.  
(and how do we account for the odd scene where the Neighbor names himself as 
Horn? That seems to imply that they are very similar - and He-pen-sheep, when 
asked who the Neighbors are, points at Horn (perhaps not entirely because of 
his ring).)
I'll try to find more evidence one way or the other... hmmm.
Also, something to watch out for- we know that the gods are fleeing into 
animals and down to Blue, and that Silk kills the bird Heirax by dumping  him 
off a roof in Nightside the Long Sun.  In Return to the Whorl, Silk (in Pig) 
asserts that Heirax is dead.  Could any animal that the narrator has killed in 
self defense or sacrificed have been (the god) Heirax?  And if my theory that 
Salica's first story parallels the scene where Silk describes the statue of 
the Gods to Pig and Hound, (remember the meanings of the Italian names? 
Helmet=Sphigx, Soldier=Pig, Strego=Silk, Bird=Scylla, Joy=Phea, 
Solemnity=Molpe, Salica=? (Echidna? her statue was discussed there - maybe 
Thyone...)then Heirax parallels the death adder that died and continued to 
kill EVERYBODY with a fragment of himself until they find him in a boot and 
remove his fang.  (it's weird  how only  a few of the statues are described in 
the scene, and those ones match up nicely with the names from Salica's story.) 
Just something small that might make more sense of the struggle going on in 
Mainframe.
Marc Aramini

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From: matthew.malthouse <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:17:28 +0000

On 08/01/2002 03:54:43 maa32 wrote:

> The biggest problem is the doubling of limbs,

Methinks a chat with Richard of Occam would be good for you.  :-)

Matthew