{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1529", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1529, "subject": "moon information!", "messages": 6, "voices": 5, "first": "2002-01-09T03:55:52+00:00", "last": "2002-01-09T18:49:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-01-09T03:55:52+00:00", "subject": "moon information!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "All right, guys. Finally got some real information that is pretty cool. At \nconfluence, Green is 30,000 leagues away (every six years). At one point, \nsomeone mentions that at the moment of their comment Green is 80,000 leagues \naway. Ok here is the cool part: 30,000 leagues is 89,996 miles; 80,000 \nleagues is 239,988 miles. The distance from the earth to the moon on average \nis 239,000 miles! If we assume that Green is in a spiralling orbit around \nBlue, coming closer and then spiralling out to some distance, pulled by some \nforces in a very irregular orbit, but on average maintaining the same distance \nas the original moon (before the deterioration in Severian's time that brought \nthe moon closer than 90,000 miles to the Urth!) I really think that the value \nof 80,000 leagues (almost EXACTLY the distance from the earth to the moon now) \nis NO COINCIDENCE.\nMarc Aramini" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "matthew.malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-01-09T10:15:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) moon information!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 09/01/2002 03:55:52 maa32 wrote:\nAll right, guys. Finally got some real information that is pretty cool. At\nconfluence, Green is 30,000 leagues away (every six years). At one point,\nsomeone mentions that at the moment of their comment Green is 80,000 leagues\naway. Ok here is the cool part: 30,000 leagues is 89,996 miles; 80,000\nleagues is 239,988 miles." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "By what conversion?\n\n\n30,000 Geographical Leagues Marine Leagues\n=\nUS Mile 90,000.00 103,569.94\nStatute Mile 90,000.18 103,570.15\nNautical Mile 78,208.02 90.000.00 (1' latitude)\nBR Nautical Mile 78,158.05 89,942.50 (Obsoltete 1970)\nSea Mile 79,200.16 91,141.73\nRoman Mile 97,865.71 112,321.62\n\n\nThe closest to your figure I can make it is marine leagues to the obsolete\nBritish Nautical mile.\n\nSo first is there any reference in tBotNS, tBotLS or tBotSS which might give us\na clue as to the meaning of \"league\" in those places? Then what means might\nthey have to make any more than an estimate of the distance?\n\nSecondly league is a lovely word and we might trust that Wolfe uses is properly\n(in contrast to Jordan who made it 4 miles in the benighted Wheel of Time). But\nwhat is \"properly\"? To an American author the choice of British measure seems\nless likely than other posibilities. And what might make the more obscure\nnautical measure preferable to geographical measure?\n\nI'm inclined to think that it really is a coincidence.\n\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "2002-01-09T13:49:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) moon information!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 9 Jan 2002 matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk wrote:\nSo first is there any reference in tBotNS, tBotLS or tBotSS which might give us\na clue as to the meaning of \"league\" in those places? Then what means might\nthey have to make any more than an estimate of the distance?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "One of the appendices to the BOTNS has a note on distances. I seem to\nremember that the author of the appendices just says \"league\" is hard to\npin down from Severian's text.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-01-09T17:31:36+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) moon information!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "All right, guys. Finally got some real information that is pretty cool.\nAt confluence, Green is 30,000 leagues away (every six years). At one\npoint, someone mentions that at the moment of their comment Green is\n80,000 leagues away. Ok here is the cool part: 30,000 leagues is 89,996\nmiles; 80,000 leagues is 239,988 miles. The distance from the earth to\nthe moon on average is 239,000 miles! " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think we have to rethink what a \"league\" is here then. I assume that\nGreen must have _at least_ the mass of Lune/Luna, because it manages to\nhold on to an atmosphere thick enough for Urthian humans. (I don't have\nthe figures available. If we were to put an atmosphere around the Moon,\ncould it hold on to it? I don't know. But I'm quite sure nothing much\nsmaller could.)\n\nBut the problem is this. The tidal force is gravitational, which means \nthat it increases or decreases as the square of the distance. If the \nMoon (or a body the size of the Moon) had a spiral orbit that came in \nas close as 90K miles, water tides would be immense and wouldn't be \nour biggest problem - we'd experience noticeable ground tides, i.e., \nearthquakes that would make the Richter scale pretty much meaningless. \nAnd if Green is bigger than the Moon, well --! \n\nIncidentally, and again I haven't done the math so I can't be sure, \nbut I _believe_ the much-larger mass of Earth/Urth would produce tides\nthat would pretty much rip the Moon/Lune apart at that distance and\nwe'd wind up with a ring instead of a moon. If this is right, then \n\"30K leagues\" _has_ to be more than 90K miles for the Blue/Green system\nto work at all." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andy Robertson", "address": "andywrobertson at clara.co.uk" }, "date": "2002-01-09T15:56:07+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) moon information!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Green is obviously in a parallel orbit to Blue, occasionally overtaking it\nin its orbit.\n\nThis takes years because the planets have nearly the same orbit and so\nnearly the same orbital period.\n\nGreen and Blue are in close parallel orbits.\n\nThey are !not! double planets like St Croix/St Anne or Ushas/Lune\n\nThe similarity it thematic and mythic, not literal\n\n\n\n\n Andy Robertson\n\n\n\n----- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"maa32\" \nAll right, guys. Finally got some real information that is pretty cool." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "confluence, Green is 30,000 leagues away (every six years)." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-01-09T18:49:45+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) moon information!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Andy Robertson, this is your quote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Green is obviously in a parallel orbit to Blue, occasionally overtaking\nit in its orbit." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ummm... why \"obviously?\" I don't see anything in the text which forbids \na spiralling double." } ] } ] }