{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/1531", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 1531, "subject": "for joe- horn in babbie", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2002-01-09T05:03:47+00:00", "last": "2002-01-09T17:34:29+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "maa32", "address": "maa32 at dana.ucc.nau.edu" }, "date": "2002-01-09T05:03:47+00:00", "subject": "for joe- horn in babbie", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For Joe, who said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If Horn is in Babbie, why have him in glasses? Silk is" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " more likely to be in glasses, no? I do think there is something to \nthis, but\n re-reading\n the relevant chapters didn't help me work it out" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In a previous post, I talked at great length about the various clues of Horn \nin Babbie: Maytera Marble's prophecy, right in On Blue's Waters, when she \nsays, after horn will experience wealth and command (ie, being Rajan of Goan):\n\"I see you Horn, riding a beast with three horns.\" OK - Babbie has two horns, \nand with Horn riding him, he has three.\nThen at the end of On Blue's Waters, like three pages from the end, Horn says \ngoodbye to everybody and hears someone calling for Babbie on the shore and \nknows that they are calling for him as Horn, then the narrator BECOMES Babbie \nfor a few seconds (the text says, I couldn't see him, but I put my head on his \nknee, or something like that) as the largest fragment of Horn's spirit flees \ninto Babbie, accounting for the great shift in narrative concern from On \nBlue's Waters, which happens almost entirely in the past, to In Green's \nJungles, where the story of Horn is told in bits and peices and in large part \nin the third person at Inclito's house as a story that happened to someone \nelse (because, in large part, it did), now that most of Horn is in Babbie. \nRead chapter 17 of return to the whorl again. See how he treats Hoof. He hugs \nhim, picks him up, comforts him, and tries to say huh huh huh at two points: \nonce pointing to his mouth at his horns, another time right after he realizes \nhis son is there. (Has everybody just not been reading my posts? Maybe I \nshould organize them better. sorry if they are hard to follow :( ?) Sorry \nfor repeating myself so many times for those of you who have followed me all \nalong. I think this outweighs the glasses a bit." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "millman at heimdallr.dyndns.org" }, "date": "2002-01-09T08:58:02+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) for joe- horn in babbie", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Joe,\n\nWelcome to the list; we're very glad to have\nyou aboard.\n\nI'm afraid that Mr. Wolfe give Babbie glasses\nas one of his jokes; Babbie (presumably like\nmany other Bluvian creatures) not only has a\ndoubled set of limbs compared to the Urth\nmodel, he also has a doubled set of eyes.\nYes, folks, you've guessed it; Babbie has\nfour eyes--thus, his astral self, which ap-\npears human, is made to wear glasses.\n\nAll together now: -groan-.\n\nIs there a deeper meaning to this? There may\nbe one, but I've never seen it. Then again,\nWolfe did once say that his sense of humor\n\"makes women scream and strong men faint\" (I\nparaphrase, but I believe it's pretty close).\n\nMarc, I don't believe that this has very much\nat all to do with the spirit in Babbie (ex-\ncept in so far as it causes him to appear\nrecognizably human when traveling astrally),\nand thus doesn't affect your argument--which\nI, for one, find pretty convincing.\n\nNacre" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, maa32 wrote:\nFor Joe, who said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "If Horn is in Babbie,\nwhy have him in glasses?\nSilk is more likely to\nbe in glasses, no? I do\nthink there is something\nto this, but re-reading\nthe relevant chapters\ndidn't help me work it\nout" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In a previous post, I talked at great\nlength about the various clues of Horn\nin Babbie: Maytera Marble's prophecy,\nright in On Blue's Waters, when she\nsays, after horn will experience\nwealth and command (ie, being Rajan of\nGoan): \"I see you Horn, riding a beast\nwith three horns.\" OK - Babbie has two\nhorns, and with Horn riding him, he\nhas three.\nThen at the end of On Blue's Waters,\nlike three pages from the end, Horn\nsays goodbye to everybody and hears\nsomeone calling for Babbie on the\nshore and knows that they are calling\nfor him as Horn, then the narrator\nBECOMES Babbie for a few seconds (the\ntext says, I couldn't see him, but I\nput my head on his knee, or something\nlike that) as the largest fragment of\nHorn's spirit flees into Babbie, ac-\ncounting for the great shift in narra-\ntive concern from On Blue's Waters,\nwhich happens almost entirely in the\npast, to In Green's Jungles, where\nthe story of Horn is told in bits and\npeices and in large part in the third\nperson at Inclito's house as a story\nthat happened to someone else (be-\ncause, in large part, it did), now\nthat most of Horn is in Babbie. Read\nchapter 17 of return to the whorl\nagain. See how he treats Hoof. He\nhugs him, picks him up, comforts him,\nand tries to say huh huh huh at two\npoints: once pointing to his mouth at\nhis horns, another time right after\nhe realizes his son is there. (Has\neverybody just not been reading my\nposts? Maybe I should organize them\nbetter. sorry if they are hard to\nfollow :( ?) Sorry for repeating\nmyself so many times for those of you\nwho have followed me all along. I\nthink this outweighs the glasses a bit." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "ddanehy at siebel.com" }, "date": "2002-01-09T17:34:29+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) for joe- horn in babbie", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nacre wrote:\nI'm afraid that Mr. Wolfe give Babbie glasses\nas one of his jokes ..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank you for pointing this out. One thing I mean to do at some point \nis write an article cataloging some of the hidden jokes in the Foo Sun \nbooks; GW has a sense of humor that is at times positively Joycean..." } ] } ] }