Subject: (whorl) Silk vis a vis God

From: Alice Turner <al at interport.net>
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 12:05:17 +0000

[Posted from WHORL, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]

With regard to the identity of the Outsider, let me remind you of Lake,
285, where Silk is telling Crane about his enlightenment:

"Voices...One spoke into each ear most of the time. One was very
masculine--not falsely deep, but solid, as if a mountain of stone were
speaking. The other was feminine, a sort of gentle cooing; yet both voices
were his...I believe, too, that the Outsider has a great many more voices
as well. I could hear them in back of me at times, although indistinctly.
It was as if a crowd were waiting behind me while its leaders whispered in
my ears; but as if the crowd was actually all one person, somehow: the
Outsider...."

If that isn't Severian, I'll eat my mouse.

Dr. Gouvea, assuming you've already rejected Porcupine and Hedgehog, the
obvious choices for your Vironese alias, what about Tanrec or Tenrec
(alternate spellings)? It's a spiny native of Madagascar. Or you could try
Porpentine--I think that's from Othello, and most melodious.

Hush yo' mouf, mantis.

-alga-

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From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 00:03:45 +0000

>If that isn't Severian, I'll eat my mouse.

	Hope you like plastic!  :-) Or is this a pet mouse....

	I'd say it is God and the Church, the Mother of believers and Bride of
Christ. Not only does this work with theology, specificially Roman Catholic
theology, but it is also in Wolfe, as in the Italian Restaurant run by
"Mamma and her sons" in *There Are Doors,* and as in the woman who runs the
church-hostel in "Westwind."

	If the same thing is going on with Severian -- and I'm not sure it is
(though it is an interesting symbolic suggestion) -- then it is because
they have a common source, not because the Outsider is Severian.

For my money, anyway. (In real life, a protestant theologian by trade.)

Signed: Big Rat (Nutria) -- and by the way, a Nutria might look like a
mouse, but I'm not YOUR mouse, so don't try slaughtering and roasting me!

---

From: Doug Eigsti <douge at nti.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:35:48 +0000

Alga,

	I'll have to chime in on the side of Nutria. The Outsider is 
better supported in the text as being the supreme being, The Creator:
	
(IV, p284.9) "...who shaped our forebears from the mud of the Short Sun 
Whorl."
	
(IV,p341.-5) "created Pas"

	No one would like to see Severian make a cameo in LONG SUN more
than I. I cannot, however, place Severian in the role of the Increate. 
Concilliator, yes. It is easier to accommodate the one difficult text you
quoted, with the male and female voices, by incorporating God's triune
nature, as Nutria has, than to assume that Severian is the One True God. 
For this is the conclusion Silk comes to. His struggle with his beliefs 
is one of the key themes in the book. Severian just does not fit. I would 
love to see further evidence to the contrary. If it's there I missed it 
completely.

=Talon=

One tart without so much rat in it later... (Monty Python)