Subject: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v001.n060

From: Alice Turner <al at interport.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 11:56:07 +0000

[Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]

ranjit:
I am somewhat in favor of just one list, but I can understand your reasons
for a distinct Whorl list for archival purposes. How about two, for the
Whorl and one for all else. It stands to reason that those of us who have
found our way here (there aren't *that* many of us) are pretty well
acquainted with the oeuvre and would like to be able to segue. 

Jim:
> 	I'd like to know if the ladies in our discussion feel Wolfe did a good
job
> of getting into the head of a young girl.

I'm the only lady in our discussion, and I thought it was adequate on a YA
level, no more. Not as appalling as Heinlein similar efforts.

> 	Nessus is Buenos Aires. Say "Nos Aires" fast ten times. Location is part
> of the evidence, but so is the fact that Blind Ultan is the famous blind
> librarian of Buenos Aires, Horky-Borky (Jorge Borges), known for his
> labyrinth fiction, tying in to the labyrinthian library, etc.

Do you have this from the Wolfe's mouth?  If you don't, I'll beg to differ
with you. In my opinion,  Nessus is, in a general way, Alexandria. Will
back this up if you don't    have the tap from the source---otherwise, of
course, will concede.

-alga-

Questions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com

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From: Derek Bell <dbell at maths.tcd.ie>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:02:47 +0000

In message <199703152101.NAA12180 at lists1.best.com>, Alice Turner writes:
>[on Nessus==Buenos Aires]

	I agree - there's a resemblance between both Nessus and
Alexandria. Nessus has a large library and is the principal city of the
Commonwealth. I'm not convinced about the "Nos Aires" link, but that
may be more convincing in some accent other than mine. I agree that
Master Ultan is a Borges figure and Wolfe said once that if Borges
didn't exist, any author who created him would deserve a Nobel Prize
for literature. (FWIW, I like Borges' writings, too.)

	Tercel

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From: Patera Jack <revjack at radix.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 19:42:16 +0000

On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 15:02:47 +0000, Derek Bell wrote:

: 
: [Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]
: 
: In message <199703152101.NAA12180 at lists1.best.com>, Alice Turner writes:
: >[on Nessus==Buenos Aires]
: >Do you have this from the Wolfe's mouth?  If you don't, I'll beg to differ
: >with you. In my opinion,  Nessus is, in a general way, Alexandria. Will
: >back this up if you don't    have the tap from the source---otherwise, of
: >course, will concede.
: 
: 	I agree - there's a resemblance between both Nessus and
: Alexandria. Nessus has a large library and is the principal city of the
: Commonwealth.

I was under the impression that Nessus was below the equator, and that
one had to travel north to reach the hot jungles at "the waist of the
Urth". Urth's magnetic fields may have flipped several times, but I
don't think that civilization would globally agree to swap the
designations "north" and "south" at those times.

J
_________________
revjack at radix.net

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From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:44:52 +0000

At 11:56 AM 3/15/97 -0500, you wrote:

>back this up if you don't have the tap from the source---otherwise, of

	No, I don't recall Gene's having told me that. I've assumed it from the
beginning, and have never questioned it. We are in the southern hemisphere,
and the civilization is undergirded by the Word of the Borgesian library.
The only problem I've had is that at one point Vodalus (as I recall) says
that Urth has flipped on its axis once. Well, if that be correct, it must
have happened twice for the Buenos Aires connection to be correct.
	I took Nessus as (Bue)Nos Aires in the same way that Cordwainer Smith's
Meeya Meefla is Miami Fla. But, that was me, not Wolfe. Smith is not a
major influence on Wolfe, despite appearances. (It seems that they both
think along the same lines, and that creates the appearance of some
dependance.)
	What I have never done is try to "solve the crossword puzzle" (to use
Mantis's felicitous analogy) by looking for evidence of the direction of
flow of the river, whether Urth flipped more than once, etc. If the river
flows west instead of east, and if we are in South America, then perhaps
Nessus is Santiago.
	Now, one other point: Pas has loaded the cargo of Starcrosser with locals.
These locals sip mate and are generally (in Viron) a South American
culture. This would indicate that Typhon's domain is in the Argentine area,
not in an Egyptian area. AHA, but the Trivigauntes speak a kind of Arabic,
so maybe they and not the Vironese were the local population around
Typhon's throne. 
	So, okay. I give up. Gene has defeated me. Where's my .357 Magnum....
	If Urth flipped only once, then the Alexandria suggestion makes more
sense; especially since Alexandria is noted for its library. In that case,
the Ultanian nod to Borges would just be a nod, and not a Clew!
	So then: What do you see as evidence for Alexandria?

JBJordan (Hmmm.  What shall I be?  How about Nutria!)

---

From: Derek Bell <dbell at maths.tcd.ie>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:42:03 +0000

In message <199703161940.LAA15782 at lists1.best.com>, Patera Jack writes:
>Urth".

	Urk - I wasn't clear enough in what I said - I meant it as a
metaphorical similarity. I agree that the Commonwealth is most likely
in South America, though I don't know the area well enough to say
which city is the most likely candidate.

	Tercel