# Vodalus sez Urth flipt? *The Whorl list — 2 messages, 2 voices, 17 Mar 1997* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### m.driussi *18 Mar 1997, 00:01* Reply: Item #7558985 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET02# Nutria (aka JBJordan), I'm curious as to the text wherein Vodalus said that the Urth has flipped on its axis--where would that be located? Re: Cordwainer Smith and Wolfe, well sure, the similarities come down mainly to the coincidences of: 1) a fairy-tale style over a science fictional core; 2) some beastmen appropriated from H.G. Wells (who in turn took them from animal fables via FRANKENSTEIN); 3) a sense of Big History, lifted from Stapledon, or Toynbee, et al.; 4) a sense of Religion as a positive force; 5) a use of pagan elements to explore the mysteries of Religion (for example: the axis mundi part of Smith's QUEST OF THREE WORLDS is remarkably similar to what Severian sees on Yesod). Which I guess is a round about way of saying that there is more than one way to make banana nut bread, but certain key elements will distinguish said loaf from zuccini bread or pound cake. =mantis= Questions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com --- ### Jim Jordan *17 Mar 1997, 19:33 · follows m.driussi* > At 12:01 AM 3/18/97 GMT, Mantis wrote: > > I'm curious as to the text wherein Vodalus said that the Urth has > flipped on its axis--where would that be located? Aw, man! I don't know! Gimmeabreak! I've read the Urth novels thrice, but I did not take notes. I dimly recall it from the alzabo feast when Severian eats Thecla and brings her back to life inside of himself -- but that might not be the place. Maybe someone else can remember. Or maybe I'm offbase. > Re: Cordwainer Smith and Wolfe, well sure, the similarities come down > mainly to the coincidences of: 1) a fairy-tale style over a science fictional > core; 2) some beastmen appropriated from H.G. Wells (who in turn took them > from animal fables via FRANKENSTEIN); 3) a sense of Big History, lifted from > Stapledon, or Toynbee, et al.; 4) a sense of Religion as a positive > force; 5) a use of pagan elements to explore the mysteries of > Religion (for example: the axis mundi part of Smith's QUEST OF THREE > WORLDS is remarkably similar to what Severian sees on Yesod). There's a bit more. Fifth Head explores what it means to be human, and that is a large part of Smith's work also. I started with Fifth Head, and that is why I thought there was a good deal of Smith influence. Moving to the Severian books, I saw the same kind of sacramental/symbolic concerns that also run through Smith. Also, both have a real interest in psychoanalysis (as in the stories in Island of Dr Death &c.). These, to me, were more striking than the things you mention. At any rate, the coincidences seem to arise from similar religious beliefs, and some similar interests (religion, sacrament, political theory, war, human psychology). Curiously, there are lots of coincidences between Smith's Norstrilia and Herbert's Dune, but both were written at the same time, so they are just coincidences! Nutria > Which I guess is a round about way of saying that there is more than > one way to make banana nut bread, but certain key elements will > distinguish said loaf from zuccini bread or pound cake. > > =mantis= > > Questions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com Questions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com ---