{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/262", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 262, "subject": "Zany Outsider clarification", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-04-21T11:58:00+00:00", "last": "1997-04-22T02:19:45+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Wells", "address": "adw at ovum.com" }, "date": "1997-04-21T11:58:00+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Zany Outsider clarification", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mantis,\n(apologies it this arrives twice, the first attempt seems to have bounced)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "so Typhon had two gods engineered for himself: a\nbig daddy ghost in the machine and a bleeding heart vivimancer real\ngod (\"real\" in the sense of being outside Main Frame) on the side, to\nbe used in case of emergency only?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't make the \"zany\" theory clear enough. The idea is that after\nbeing \"cast out\" of Mainframe, Typhon/Pas exists in several emergency\nbackup forms (some of which we definitely know about). One of these\nforms manifests itself as the Outsider (which may be a low-power\nlast-chance backup - hence its considerably more enigmatic influence than\nthe very earthy/direct/\"Greek\" Mainframe Gods).\n\nThe idea that Silk's \"enlightenment\" - rejection of the false Gods, and\nbelief in the Outsider - is yet another falsehood seems interesting,\nand in keeping with some of the dark nature of BOTLS\n(e.g. the \"inhumi picnic\" scenario). It's also very consistent with\nSilk's personality - it has been pointed out here many times that he\nhas a superstitious tendency to leap to conclusions/explanations.\nMainframe is full of false gods, so the next \"god\" he stumbles upon\nMUST be a true one. Mustn't it?\n\nYour response raises an interesting question: \"why should Typhon engineer\ntwo Gods for himself?\" Why _not_? He is a monomaniac with aspirations\nto immortality!\n\nWhich brings me to another pet theory, which I don't think has yet been\ndiscussed here. The ability to transfer a personality to a machine and the\nfurther ability to \"download\" into a human host seems to have an obvious\napplication, given Typhon's personality. When the Whorl arrives at\nBlue/Green, the Gods download themselves into suitable receptacles\nand lead the cargo/colonists as (demi?)gods.\n\nGiven that we know this to be technically possible, it seems inconceivable\nto me that this is not the Plan, although I don't recall any specific clues\nin the text(?).\nBut the really interesting question is how the Gods would choose \"suitable\"\nreceptacles. Store them as frozen embryos, perhaps.. With suitable\ngenetic enhancements to suit the whims of the designer-\"God\". Typhon,\nfor example, might well choose a receptacle who was charismatic,\nhandsome, and unnaturally attractive to the opposite sex. (Things which\nIsuspect Typhon himself was not). Oh yes, and supernaturally tough,\na born sword fighter, etc.\nHopefully this time it's clearer where this train of thought is leading.\n\nI would dearly love to be able to interpret the \"Pas-with-Silk's head\"\nscene as being a confirmation of this idea, but I can't find a completely\nconvincing match. (On the other hand, I have very little idea what that\nparticular vision signifies at all).\nAgain, the idea that the 'basically kind and decent hero' might come to\nunderstand that he is a deliberately-engineered construct intended as\na receptacle for an appalling tyrant seems interesting. It even, perhaps,\nlinks to the \"zany Outsider\" theory. If Silk is the (or at least _a_)\nproto-Typhon, then it makes sense that\nTyphon-emergency-backup-as-Outsider should choose him to \"enlighten\".\n\nIt also leads me to further speculation - which other frozen embryos (or\nthose we suspect as such) seem particularly suited as which Gods'\n\"fantasy embodiments\"..\nThere are some obvious potential matches, I think.\n\nDave W\n(I suppose if I had to choose a Vironese name, \"newt\" would be a suitable\nchoice)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1997-04-22T02:19:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Zany Outsider clarification", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:58 AM 4/21/97 +0000, you wrote:\n\nWhich brings me to another pet theory, which I don't think has yet been\ndiscussed here. The ability to transfer a personality to a machine and the\nfurther ability to \"download\" into a human host seems to have an obvious\napplication, given Typhon's personality. When the Whorl arrives at\nBlue/Green, the Gods download themselves into suitable receptacles\nand lead the cargo/colonists as (demi?)gods." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tThe question is: Is it possible for the gods to do this away from\nMainframe? Can they do it once their hosts leave the Whorl? My guess is\n\"no.\" Do we have any information to lead us to one conclusion or the other?\n\nNutria" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1997-04-22T02:19:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Zany Outsider clarification", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:58 AM 4/21/97 +0000, you wrote:\n\nWhich brings me to another pet theory, which I don't think has yet been\ndiscussed here. The ability to transfer a personality to a machine and the\nfurther ability to \"download\" into a human host seems to have an obvious\napplication, given Typhon's personality. When the Whorl arrives at\nBlue/Green, the Gods download themselves into suitable receptacles\nand lead the cargo/colonists as (demi?)gods." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tThe question is: Is it possible for the gods to do this away from\nMainframe? Can they do it once their hosts leave the Whorl? My guess is\n\"no.\" Do we have any information to lead us to one conclusion or the other?\n\nNutria" } ] } ] }