{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/278",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 278,
    "subject": "Auguries; Gods; Connections; Mint",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1997-05-11T11:47:52+00:00",
    "last": "1997-05-11T11:47:52+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0005-0257@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David_Lebling",
        "address": "david_lebling at avid.com"
      },
      "date": "1997-05-11T11:47:52+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Auguries; Gods; Connections; Mint",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Joel (et al.),\n\nAuguries:\n \nDo we ever witness an augury (not just a sacrifice) conducted by anyone\nother than Silk? His predictions are both accurate and \"obvious\" (in\nthat they can easily be explained as coming from his own foreshadowings\nof the future, or from hints emplanted during his enlightenment).  (In\nmy euhemeristic mode).\n\nI doubt that Pas and family are real gods in the sense that Wolfe grants\ngodhood to the (e.g.) Greek pantheon.  It is, however, amusing to\nspeculate that when Pike refers to devils entering the whorl, he could\nwell be referring to demons (in the Catholic sense) occupying the\nvirtual consciousnesses of the gods of the whorl.  I don't actually buy\nthis one, because it seems clear to me that some of the gods are good\n(Kypris seems to be, or have become so; Pas may be on the way, and\nTartaros as well).  I suppose even a demon might be redeemed in the end,\nthough (see Blish's \"Black Easter\" and \"The Day After Judgement\" for a\nview on this).\n\nConnections:\n\nAs for why the two series are connected, the easy answer is that it's\nWolfe having fun as he is wont to do.  It does cause timeline problems,\nan issue I've also raised (though these problems first surface in _The\nUrth of the New Sun_, and only get a little worse in _Long Sun_).\n\nThe harder answer is that both series are at some level about aspects of\nreligion, and \"enlightenment\" in particular. _New Sun_ is about someone\nraised in bad circumstances coming to understand God and lead a\nChristian or even Christ-like life.  (There's far more to be said about\nit than that, of course; is Severian Christian or even moral in his\nactions, for example?)  _Long Sun_ is, as Wolfe has said, about idolatry\n(on several levels: to pursue just one example, the Ayuntiamento's\npursuit of eternal life is a form of idolatry). Silk comes to reject his\nidolatrous religion after an encounter with God, literally saving the\nworld/whorl in the process.\n  \nAlthough other Wolfe books are religious in theme, I think what he's\ndoing in these two series is working out different ways in which people\ncome to God.  I expect the _Short Sun_ series will do the same.\n\nThis is hardly to say that that's all they're about.  After all, _Moby\nDick_ is about God, too, but that's only a part of its subject matter.\nWolfe has mentioned some of the other things _New Sun_ is about (the\n\"stay-at-home\" future, genetic tinkering as better than mechanical\ntechnology to produce \"tools\", and so on). We've come up with other\nthings _Long Sun_ is about, such as \"Mind\" and \"identity.\"\n\nMint:\n\nAnother question about Mint:  Why did she want to die when the Grain\nExchange collapsed?  We even get Remora's interpretation of her dream\nabout this event, and I'm still as puzzled about it as about Silk's\n\"isn't it obvious?\" re his suicidal impulses on the dirigible. When\nWolfe or a Wolfean character says \"obvious,\" I get scared, 'cause it\nusually isn't!\n\n      -vizcacha\n      (david_lebling at avid.com)"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}