{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/318", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 318, "subject": "gammadion", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1997-05-30T10:07:54+00:00", "last": "1997-06-02T10:19:42+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ron Crown", "address": "crownrw at slu.edu" }, "date": "1997-05-30T10:07:54+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) gammadion", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Since things seem to be rather quiet right now, perhaps this is an\nopportune moment for my first post. I've been lurking almost from day\none on WHORL but haven't had much time to contribute and am also\nsomewhat daunted by the detailed knowledge of the text displayed by so\nmany of you! I've only read BotLS once and Nabokov's dictum that \"you\ncan never read a book; you can only reread it\" (or something like that)\napplies to Wolfe with a vengeance!\n\nAs a reference librarian, I can offer one tidbit of information re the\ngammadion question: from _Christian Symbols Ancient and Modern: A\nHandbook for Students_ by Heather Child and Dorothy Colles, p. 40--\"The\nvoided cross or gammadia [note alternate spelling] is composed of four\nGreek gammas, emblematic of Christ as the Corner-stone of the Church; it\nis frequently seen on vestments in the Greek Orthodox Church.\"\n\nThere's a picture of a gammadion(a) on the next page which looks the\nsame as the Gammadion (1) on the Compendium of Crosses website that\nsomeone referred to way back when (for recent subscribers the URL is\nwww.amulet.co.uk/symbols/crosses). The Greek Orthodox connection is\ninteresting for one thing since Byzantine history obviously influenced\ntBotNS; the four gammas arranged in the form of a plus (+) sign also has\nthe advantage (over the swastika form of the gammadion; see Gammadion\n(2) on the Compendium website) of corresponding to the \"sign of\naddition\".\n\nRon Crown (who has made sure that everything of Wolfe's in print AND\nLexicon Urthus are in the Saint Louis University library)\nReference Librarian\nSaint Louis University\ncrownrw at slu.edu" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-05-30T19:53:00+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) gammadion", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #6419145 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INTERNET#\n\nRon Crown,\n\nWelcome aboard! Good points re: voided cross (especially since I\nagree with you!). I'm happy to learn that there is such a Wolfe book\nbastion (\"bookstion\"?) at Saint Louis University library--keep up the\ngood work!\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Richman", "address": "mrichman at cybernex.net" }, "date": "1997-05-31T21:24:57+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) gammadion", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There's a picture of a gammadion(a) on the next page which looks the\nsame as the Gammadion (1) on the Compendium of Crosses website that\nsomeone referred to way back when (for recent subscribers the URL is\nwww.amulet.co.uk/symbols/crosses). The Greek Orthodox connection is\ninteresting for one thing since Byzantine history obviously influenced\ntBotNS; the four gammas arranged in the form of a plus (+) sign also has\nthe advantage (over the swastika form of the gammadion; see Gammadion\n(2) on the Compendium website) of corresponding to the \"sign of\naddition\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "While it may be a symbol of the Greek Orthodox Church, the gammadion as it\nappears in the Book of the Long Sun seems more reminiscent of the T symbol\nfrom Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. In that book, the T of the Model T\nbecame the symbol of the state religion; the purely material becomes divine.\nThe gammadion in Long Sun is just a set of screwdrivers that can be joined\nend to end for ease of storage; again the purely material becomes divine.\nIn Brave New World I think it is a case of people having forgotten what the\ndivine really is. As for Long Sun, Comely Kypris herself says that the\nChapter was set up as a parody of the state religion on Urth.\n\n\nMichael Richman\n380 Homans Av\nCloster, NJ 07624\nmrichman at bc.cybernex.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Doug Eigsti", "address": "douge at nti.com" }, "date": "1997-06-02T10:19:42+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) gammadion", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "While it may be a symbol of the Greek Orthodox Church, the gammadion as it\nappears in the Book of the Long Sun seems more reminiscent of the T symbol\nfrom Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. In that book, the T of the Model T\nbecame the symbol of the state religion; the purely material becomes divine.\nThe gammadion in Long Sun is just a set of screwdrivers that can be joined\nend to end for ease of storage; again the purely material becomes divine.\nIn Brave New World I think it is a case of people having forgotten what the\ndivine really is. As for Long Sun, Comely Kypris herself says that the\nChapter was set up as a parody of the state religion on Urth.\n\n\nMichael Richman\n380 Homans Av\nCloster, NJ 07624\nmrichman at bc.cybernex.net" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tI agree. Remember that in NEW SUN, Wolfe was acting as the\n\"translator\", and something is always lost in translation. If we can\npresume the same scenario for LONG SUN then the choice of the word\n\"gammadion\" may be just the closest approximation describing the artifact\nworn by members of the Chapter. Obtaining a definition out of our\ncontemporary dictionary cannot be seen as authoritative, only suggestive. \nAs Michael Richman points out the object in question is clearly joined \nout of separate pieces. \"Our\" gammadion is four gammas placed to form a \ncross out of the void, yet they do not touch, a necessity for a physical \nobject. Pas's gammadion may, indeed, be a parody of the gammadion listed\nin the citation and not a precise duplicate.\n\n=Talon=" } ] } ] }