{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/331", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 331, "subject": "Welcome Rostrum", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-06-06T16:34:00+00:00", "last": "1997-06-09T00:35:40+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-06-06T16:34:00+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Welcome Rostrum", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #0562550 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET#\n\nRostrum,\n\nWelcome aboard! I'll try to answer a few of your questions, let's\nsee . . .\n\nRe: light of ship's engines. Hmmm. Now I could'a sworn that what\nSilk was seeing was the short sun \"rising\" over the \"horizon\" of the\nspinning Whorl. Silk makes the (quite Platonic, imho) leap of\nassociating the Outsider with the short sun, the big white fire that\nfills him with fear.\n\nRe: death of bird Hierax as being due to Mucor. Interesting. Might\ntie in with the fact that Hierax is the one name that will scare\nMucor . . . then again, that fact might indicate that bird Hierax was\ninstrumental in keeping Mucor somewhat contained, i.e., bird was\na prison guard on behalf of the god (for real or just symbolically).\n\nRe: voided cross of lower-case gammas. Every \"voided cross\" picture\nI've seen has been with capital gammas. (Aside: the image I'm\nreferring to is the one used by the German Army during WWII. Not the\nswastika--true, this can be called a gammadion, but this form's other\nname is \"twisted cross\" rather than \"voided cross.\" Rather than\nswastika, I mean the \"friend or foe\" symbol emblazoned on airplanes and\ntanks; just as a white star stood for USA, a bullseye stood for Britain\nor France [depending on the colors], a lictor's axe stood for Italy,\na red star for USSR, etc.) True, in order to make jewelry of this\nform requires the addition of other pieces to hold the four gammas\ntogether in such a way that the cross of the interior is still more\nor less empty.\n\nRe: gods and the powers they grant. This is a tricky issue,\nwondering how a Love goddess can be a War goddess. It is clearly one\nof the important puzzles of the series. And, as we've been\ndiscussing, it seems that there is give and take among the gods and\nbetween gods and humans, etc., further blurring identities and\nabilities.\n\nHowever, just as a fog cutter tonic, let's take the hard line: in the\nGreco-Roman set up (and we all agree that the Whorl pantheon is\npretty Greek), Aphrodite/Venus is =never= a combat specialist,\nthough she doesn't avoid watching a war, especially if she kinda\nsorta started it (e.g., the Trojan War). Now Athene, she wears the\nsoldier's gear; and Artemis, she has the hunter's bow and violent\nstreak; but neither Athene nor Artemis is a Love goddess. Division\nof powers, by definition, separates the gods and goddesses into their\nvarious niches.\n\n(True, we can take the angle of \"all goddesses are simply aspects of\nThe Goddess\" or the staunchly humanist \"all goddesses are simply\naspects of womankind,\" but such statements end in themselves or\ntangential arguments , so we'll skip it/them for the moment.)\n\nBack to Earth: there are in fact goddesses of Love & War, but they\naren't in the Greco-Roman playset. We have cases from the Middle\nEast. But again, they are defined as such--they aren't War goddesses\nwho are taking night classes in kama sutra, for example.\n\nBut this presupposes a static system. The only growth in character\nwe see in the Greco-Roman set is when young gods reach maturity:\nlittle Hermes, cattle rustler and prankster, grows up into the god of\nsuch things--no surprise there!\n\nIf what we are seeing on the Whorl is a non-static system, or a\nsystem seeking stasis (equilibrium), then we are witnessing the\nevolution of gods. This pattern is reinforced by the progression of\nPas (Greek) into Tammuz/Osiris (Sumero-Egyptian)--the first role was\nad hoc, the second role was earned.\n\nSo Kypris may be evolving towards becoming a full blown Love & War\ngoddess, like Inanna (which would dovetail [heh] quite nicely with\nPas as Tammuz). And there is =no= question that this Love Goddess is\na powerful, forceful, absolutely fearsome being. Just ask Adonis!\nOr Gilgamesh! Or Robert Graves!\n\nHow I go on!\n\n=mantis=\n\nP.S. \"Wolfe as an Infocom game designer,\" LOL! (No offense intended,\nvizcacha--I'm just imagining the parser: \"I'm sorry, I don't know\nwhat a DAGGER is.\" Then the poor player tries to spell \"misericorde\"\ncorrectly! )\n\n=m=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Richman", "address": "mrichman at cybernex.net" }, "date": "1997-06-09T00:35:40+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Welcome Rostrum", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: m.driussi at genie.com\nSubject: (whorl) Welcome Rostrum\nDate: Fri, 6 Jun 97 16:34:00 GMT\nBestServHost: lists.best.com\nSender: whorl-errors at lists.best.com\nErrors-To: whorl-errors at lists.best.com\nReply-To: whorl at lists.best.com\nTo: whorl at lists.best.com" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Re: light of ship's engines. Hmmm. Now I could'a sworn that what\nSilk was seeing was the short sun \"rising\" over the \"horizon\" of the\nspinning Whorl. Silk makes the (quite Platonic, imho) leap of\nassociating the Outsider with the short sun, the big white fire that\nfills him with fear." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe a member of the crew explains that flash as a restart of the Long\nSun, which can only be started at full power." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Re: gods and the powers they grant. This is a tricky issue,\nwondering how a Love goddess can be a War goddess. It is clearly one\nof the important puzzles of the series. And, as we've been\ndiscussing, it seems that there is give and take among the gods and\nbetween gods and humans, etc., further blurring identities and\nabilities." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Kypris isn't really a God of Love; she is a cybercopy of Typhon's courtesan.\nThe real Kypris was probably a confident and uninhibited person; two\npersonality traits Mint was sorely lacking. It is Mint's own intelligence\nand courage, the borrowed cajones, and the public endorsement of a goddess\nand of Silk that make her an effective general.\n\n\nMichael Richman\n380 Homans Av\nCloster, NJ 07624\nmrichman at bc.cybernex.net" } ] } ] }