{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/338", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 338, "subject": "The Light Outside and Kypris", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-06-10T09:01:44+00:00", "last": "1997-06-11T14:56:58+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1997-06-10T09:01:44+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) The Light Outside and Kypris", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, 6 Jun 1997 m.driussi at genie.com wrote:\nRe: light of ship's engines. Hmmm. Now I could'a sworn that what\nSilk was seeing was the short sun \"rising\" over the \"horizon\" of the\nspinning Whorl. Silk makes the (quite Platonic, imho) leap of\nassociating the Outsider with the short sun, the big white fire that\nfills him with fear." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As others were confused about this, I'll mention we're talking about the\nscene in _Lake_ where Silk is down in one of the landers and sees the\nstars and the outside of the Whorl. He then sees a bright light at one\nend of the Whorl and then the entire Whorl is shaken in a manner that\nmakes Silk think the hand (or just the finger) of the Outsider has shaken\nit. Silk's description of the shaking makes it seem like a singular\nevent, not something Whorl inhabitants are used to experiencing, which is\nwhat made me think that the ships engines were firing for the first time\nin many years. Which made me think \"The ship has arrived at its\ndestination!\" Which puts a kink in the idea that the Whorl has been\norbiting for a long time (an interpretation that otherwise appeals to me). \n\nMantis continues:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Back to Earth: there are in fact goddesses of Love & War, but they\naren't in the Greco-Roman playset. We have cases from the Middle\nEast. But again, they are defined as such--they aren't War goddesses\nwho are taking night classes in kama sutra, for example." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If what we are seeing on the Whorl is a non-static system, or a\nsystem seeking stasis (equilibrium), then we are witnessing the\nevolution of gods. This pattern is reinforced by the progression of\nPas (Greek) into Tammuz/Osiris (Sumero-Egyptian)--the first role was\nad hoc, the second role was earned.\n\nSo Kypris may be evolving towards becoming a full blown Love & War\ngoddess, like Inanna (which would dovetail [heh] quite nicely with\nPas as Tammuz). And there is =no= question that this Love Goddess is\na powerful, forceful, absolutely fearsome being. Just ask Adonis!\nOr Gilgamesh! Or Robert Graves!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think the key passage (and I don't know where it is - either Exodus or\nthe end of Calde) is where Silk speculates that the more Kypris becomes a\ntrue love goddess, the more she will become like the Outsider. Which\nmakes me think that Horn's comment at the end of Exodus about a love\ngoddess not being able to make Mint a warrior was meant to highlight the\ndifference between a \"Love Goddess\" conception of Love (being all about\nromance) and a Christian conception of Love (exemplified by one who\nendures suffering for his beloved). Christians sometimes picture God's\nlove as a consuming fire which devours evil.\n\nSo, I read the Horn's comment as a poke by Wolfe saying, \"Ha! Were you\nthinking like Horn that Love is all perfume and roses? Think again!\" It\ncertainly goes along with Silk's disillusionment when he realizes Hyacinth\ncan be a nasty fighter when she needs to be.\n\nSomeone else speculated that Kypris is just the digitized personality of a\nconcubine, who would know very little about being a military leader, but I\nthink that there's a lot of evidence that possession grants the possessed\nperson abilities far beyond what the original digitized person was capable\nof. Are we to believe that Kypris the concubine could throw a knife as\nChenille does? Or that Typhon the tyrant was able to understand and\nrepair any mechanical device as Auk does? \n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Derek Bell", "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie" }, "date": "1997-06-11T14:56:58+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) The Light Outside and Kypris", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In message <199706101304.GAA08404 at lists1.best.com>, Michael Straight writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Silk's description of the shaking makes it seem like a singular\nevent, not something Whorl inhabitants are used to experiencing, which is\nwhat made me think that the ships engines were firing for the first time\nin many years. Which made me think \"The ship has arrived at its\ndestination!\" Which puts a kink in the idea that the Whorl has been\norbiting for a long time (an interpretation that otherwise appeals to me). " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tEven if it were a ship's engine firing, it could be to change\nthe orbit slightly. (I include retro-rockets in \"engine\", as they\nwould have to be huge to alter the orbit and certainly capable of\nshaking Silk's Whorl as well as his whorlview.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Are we to believe that Kypris the concubine could throw a knife as\nChenille does? Or that Typhon the tyrant was able to understand and\nrepair any mechanical device as Auk does? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tMaybe the different deities were programmed to\nhave abilities the originals didn't so each deity would have an\nadvantage over the others in one area - after all the cities were\ndesigned to fairly isolated from each other, both geographically[1] and\nculturally to prevent them uniting against Mainframe, so it could be\nthat the deities were programmed to discourage them fighting, at least\nuntil they reached their desination.\n\n\tOf course, that's not proven, just a (IMHO) plausible scenario\n- and we know how many of Silks' plausible scenarios were wrong! ;-)\n\n\tTercel\n\n[1]I know, it's not the most appropriate world - maybe\n\"whorlographically\" would be better." } ] } ] }