{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/374",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 374,
    "subject": "Digest whorl.v006.n010",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1997-06-26T13:58:47+00:00",
    "last": "1997-06-27T18:25:09+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0006-0476@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Kieran Mullen",
        "address": "kieran at phyast.nhn.ou.edu"
      },
      "date": "1997-06-26T13:58:47+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Re:  Digest whorl.v006.n010",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "    More fuel for the holy wars..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "With respect, I flat-out don't understand how it can be so. A Christian\nis, by definition, a follower of Jesus Christ. (This is the minimum\ncriterion, you can pile on as much theological baggage as you wish.)\nChrist is unknown in Severian's universe, so Severian cannot follow him.\nTherefore, Severian is not a Christian."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "    This seems to be a limited definition, from an sf point of view.\nHow would you classify the creatures in Lewis's _Out_of_the_Silent_\nPlanet_ or _Perelandra_?  They don't follow Jesus specifically, but they\nare certainly patched into the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition.  I\nthink that one facet of Wolfe's writing is theological sf, trying to\nstretch the boundary of normal sf.  (In traditional sf \"gods\" are just\nvery powerful contingent beings.)  He's implying that if the Earthly\nChristian tradition is true, it must be true *everywhere*.\n\n    If that's all too religious for you, remember the ambiguity.  Silk\ncould be completely wrong about the Outsider;  it could all come from \nCrane's medical explanation."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "There is, perhaps, some ambiguity in what Wolfe told you. Perhaps he\nmeant that though Severian is in no way meant to _be_ Christ or someone\nlike Christ (this would make the New Sun books heretical, afteer all),\nhe is trying to live a Christ-like life. You don't have to be a\nChristian to do this--you don't even have to know who Christ is. But if\nyou are doing it, then you may be said to have a \"Christian characer\". "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "    It might be helpful to think how a Christian would interpret \nAbraham from the Pentateuch.  He walked and talked with God, and it\nchanged his life.  However, Abraham certainly wouldn't be a \"Christian\"\nin the sense being \"a follower of Jesus Christ\".  However you might\nsay that in the Christian tradition, he is a Christian figure.\n\n    To me Silk has more of a Mosaic flavor to his character than Christic.\nHe leads his people out of bondage to a promised planet.  However, he\ndoes not get to walk in the Land himself.  I mean, \"Exodus\"?  The burning\nbush?  \n\n               Kieran Mullen"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0006-0482@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Derek Bell",
        "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie"
      },
      "date": "1997-06-27T18:25:09+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v006.n010",
      "in_reply_to": "<whorl-v0006-0476@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "In message <199706261856.LAA25244 at lists1.best.com>, Kieran Mullen writes:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "   To me Silk has more of a Mosaic flavor to his character than Christic.\nHe leads his people out of bondage to a promised planet.  However, he\ndoes not get to walk in the Land himself.  I mean, \"Exodus\"?  The burning\nbush?  "
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tMaybe I'm stretching the comparison too far, but could Silk\nhave a brother high up in the Chapter - analogous to Aaron, the High\nPriest, Moses' brother?\n\n\tTercel"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}