{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/38", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 38, "subject": "Silk's Void Cross", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-01-21T15:17:47+00:00", "last": "1997-01-21T17:58:19+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Doug Eigsti", "address": "douge at nti.com" }, "date": "1997-01-21T15:17:47+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Silk's Void Cross", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dave writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "[Posted from Whorl, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun]\n\nA few minutes with the encyclopedia both illuminates and obscures.\nSilk's cross is referred to as a \"gammadion,\" and as a \"voided cross.\"\nAs it happens, and has been already pointed out, the swastika or\n\"fylfot\" is a gammadion (because it is made up of four gammas). (A\nvoided cross is one with a hole in the center of it.)\n\nHowever, there's another definition of a gammadion (from the OED):\n\"voided greek cross,\" where the gammas are \"back-to-back.\" \nUnfortunately, there is no picture. However, a greek cross is one where\nthe arms of the cross are equal in length (a roman cross, more commonly\nseen, has the lower arm longer).\n\nSilk's cross has an \"X-shaped void\" in it, according to _Nightside_. \nSo, there are several possible looks one could imagine. The only one I\ncould come up with that matches all the criteria is:\n\n | |\n | |\n_____| |_____\n_____ _____\n | |\n | |\n | |\n\nThis looks rather like the cross one used to see on German warplanes\n(WWI vintage, for example).\n\nIt has the problem that the gammas aren't attached to each other, but\nthat's a small drawback, easily cured by a small connector at the end of\neach arm.\n\n Dave Lebling\n (david_lebling at avid.com)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dave,\n\n\t\n\tI like your diagram it does seem to allow for the void-cross, and\nit is a nice plus-sign shape. I can find two things to take exception. \nOne: The disconnected gammas which you mentioned. It would be more elegant\nif the gammas were self connected, not needing a framework to keep them\ntogether. Two: Gammas do not have arms of equal length. They look like an \nupside down capitol \"L\".\n\nXXXXXXXXXX\nXXXXXXXXXX\nXXXX\nXXXX\nXXXX\nXXXX\nXXXX\nXXXX\n\nHere is my best guess for Silk's gammadion:\n\n\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\n\nThis has the advantage of being connected and built exclusively from four \ngamma shaped objects. One can see how Silk could use a gamma as a \nscrewdriver for tightening the power connections on a window.\n\n\tQuestion: What is a \"fylfot\"?\n\n=Doug Eigsti=\ndouge at nti.com\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fernando Q. Gouvea", "address": "fqgouvea at colby.edu" }, "date": "1997-01-21T17:58:19+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Silk's Void Cross", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "**** On Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:17:47 -0700 (MST), douge at nti.com (Doug Eigsti) said:\n\nDoug> \tI like your diagram it does seem to allow for the void-cross, and\nDoug> it is a nice plus-sign shape. I can find two things to take\nDoug> exception. One: The disconnected gammas which you mentioned. It\nDoug> would be more elegant if the gammas were self connected, not needing\nDoug> a framework to keep them together. Two: Gammas do not have arms of\nDoug> equal length. They look like an upside down capitol \"L\".\n\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO XXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXX OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\n\n\nDoug> This has the advantage of being connected and built exclusively from\nDoug> four gamma shaped objects. One can see how Silk could use a gamma as\nDoug> a screwdriver for tightening the power connections on a window.\n\nIt has the disadvantage, though, of not being a cross at all! Since Wolfe\nrepeatedly says \"voided cross\", I'd expect something that was a cross but\nhad some sort of hole it in. (Or was missing something---an allusion I\nthink Wolfe intends but that is immaterial to the shape of the thing.)\n\n\nFernando" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Fernando Q. Gouvea\t\t\t\nChair, Dept. of Math & CS\t\tEditor, MAA Online\nColby College\t\t\t\thttp://www.maa.org\nfqgouvea at colby.edu\t\t\tfqgouvea at maa.org\n==========================================================\n\n\tCOMMENT\n\nOh, life is a glorious cycle of song,\nA medley of extemporanea;\nAnd love is thing that can never go wrong;\nAnd I am Marie of Roumania.\n\t\t-- Dorothy Parker\n\n\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] } ] }