{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/383", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 383, "subject": "Canticon", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "1997-07-01T00:44:00+00:00", "last": "1997-07-01T20:02:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-07-01T00:44:00+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #0471995 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nNutria,\n\nRe: Cant, as a matter of fact, Talon compiled a list of cant terms\nused in THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN and I'm still working my way through\nit using the OED, which so far has nearly all of them. But I'm\nalways happy to take up an offer for help, so here's a few I haven't\nbeen able to find in the OED:\n\nAbram\nbeggar's root\nhornbuss [\"buss\" most likely = \"kiss\"]\nice [pre-1969, USA]\niron (you're for ~)\njump (full of ~; he's ~ for religion)\nkate [\"lockpick\"]\nlarger [\"more importantly\"]\nlay [OED has ten pages devoted to \"lay\"; in Vironese cant it is used\nin at least five ways, four of which I think I've found]\n --breakin' ~.\nlily\nnanny nipper\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Langford", "address": "ansible at cix.compulink.co.uk" }, "date": "1997-07-01T12:39:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In-Reply-To: <199707010049.RAA29891 at lists1.best.com>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mantis wrote:\nTalon compiled a list of cant terms\nused in THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN and I'm still working my way through\nit using the OED, which so far has nearly all of them. But I'm\nalways happy to take up an offer for help, so here's a few I haven't\nbeen able to find in the OED:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Here's some stuff from Eric Partridge's =A Dictionary of Historical \nSlang= (abridged 1972), with addenda from =1811 Dictionary of the Vulgar \nTongue: A Dictionary of Buckish Slang, University Wit, and Pickpocket \nEloquence= or [1811] for short ... the latter was reprinted and \nextensively remaindered in the 1970s and 80s." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Abram" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A malingerer: C.19-20 nautical; ob. 2, As adj., c.: mad, C.16-17, C.17-18 \n... // abram, v. To feign sickness: ?ca 1840-90 ... // Abra(ha)m-cove or \n-man. A pseudo-madman seeking alms; a genuine lunatic allowed on certain \ndays to leave Bethlehem Hospital ... ca 1550-1700. 2. Also, in late \nC.18-19, a mendicant pretending to be an old naval rating cast on the \nstreets. // [1811] gives \"naked\" as primary meaning -- also allowed by \nPartridge -- and agrees on Abram Men, pretended mad men." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "iron (you're for ~)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[1811] Money in general. To polish the king's iron with one's eyebrows; \nto look out of grated or prison windows ... Iron doublet; a prison." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "kate [\"lockpick\"]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A master or skeleton key: c. of late C.17-mid-19. cf JENNY; JIMMY: esp. \nBETTY. 2. Hence, a picklock: C18-mid-19. 3. (Also katy, Katy.) A wanton: \n(mainly Scots) coll: C.16-early 19. // [1811] agrees: A picklock (cant)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "larger [\"more importantly\"]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "large, adj. gen. used as adv. Excessively: (low) coll: from ca 1850. \nThus, dress large, i.e. showily; go large, i.e. noisily; play large, i.e. \nfor high stakes; i.e. boastfully. cf. FINE AND LARGE." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "nanny nipper" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "nanny. A whore: late C.17-C-19: coll. Ex Nanny, the female name. Mostly \nin combination: see, e.g., NANNY-HOUSE. // nipper. A thief, esp. a \ncut-purse or a pickpocket: c.: ca. 1580-1830. // nipper, v. To catch; to \narrest: ca. 1820-1850. // [1811] confirms: Nanny House. A brothel. // \nNip. A cheat. Bung nipper; a cutpurse.\n\n\nBy the way, no one on this learned list will have missed the upfront joke \nthat Tick the catachrest speaks in catachresis ... but is there an echo \nthere, too, of another communicative pet in James H. Schmitz's well-loved \nsf story \"Novice\" (incorporated into =The Universe Against Her=, 1964): a \n\"crest cat\" called Tick-Tock?\n\nDave\n\n\nDavid Langford\nansible at cix.co.uk" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-07-01T14:01:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #6198742 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nDavid Langford,\n\nHello there and a hearty welcome aboard!\n\nThank you for the cant terms--I'll put up another wanted list after\nI've exhausted the OED (ha! OED is never exhausted: mantis loses\npatience and eyesight).\n\nInteresting tip re: Schmitz's \"Novice.\" I'm not (yet) familiar with\nthe story. Re: Tick talk, vizcacha made a listing (it should be in\nthe archives) of Tick's words and phrases just so that we could all\nagree on something. \n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Derek Bell", "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie" }, "date": "1997-07-01T18:55:40+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tStrong language ahead!\n\n\n\n\n\n\tOne cant term that's intruiged me is \"shaggy\". Apart from\nmeaning matted, in Ireland it's slang that's means something akin to\n\"fuck\". I'm not sure how common this meaning is outside Ireland or if\nWolfe intended it in this manner - it's certainly an appropriate\nmeaning for the places it's used.\n\n\tTercel" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1997-07-01T20:02:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Reply: Item #6323607 from WHORL at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET01#\n\nTercel,\n\nRe: \"shaggy,\" that's it on the nose, in coarse slang according to\nOED. Verb and workhorse-of-all-modifiers. FWIW&IMHO Wolfe is using\nit in this sense.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jim Jordan", "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net" }, "date": "1997-07-01T17:34:25+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Canticon", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 12:44 AM 7/1/97 GMT, you wrote:\nNutria,\n\nRe: Cant, as a matter of fact, Talon compiled a list of cant terms\nused in THE BOOK OF THE LONG SUN and I'm still working my way through\nit using the OED, which so far has nearly all of them." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tGood. My memory has not completely gone. (At 47, you never know...). I\nknew I remembered a post on this, but could not find it.\n\tSo, the good old OED has them. I could have guessed that, but at 47....\n\n But I'm" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "always happy to take up an offer for help, so here's a few I haven't\nbeen able to find in the OED:\n\nAbram - mad; naked. As I dimly recall, the first is the one that fits." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "beggar's root - \"rooting\" is stealing. Rooting implies that several men\nare going out on robbery bent." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "hornbuss [\"buss\" most likely = \"kiss\"] - buss may mean \"steal.\" Horn is\nthe nose, in the dictionary. I thought it might mean to kiss the penis when\nI first read it. It might mean to blow one's nose. I cannot recall the\ncontext." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "ice [pre-1969, USA] - noun: diamonds; verb: imprison" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "iron (you're for ~) - iron can be money or courage; but an iron house is a\nprison. My guess is that Wolfe is using iron as prison, but I don't recall\nthe context." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "jump (full of ~; he's ~ for religion) A jump is an act of theft in which\nthe thief takes advantage of an open door or window for a quickie. Thus, it\nseems to be used in the lupine underworld for \"energy, energetic.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "kate [\"lockpick\"] - a pick-lock or skeleton key." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "larger [\"more importantly\"] - no entry." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "lay [OED has ten pages devoted to \"lay\"; in Vironese cant it is used\nin at least five ways, four of which I think I've found]\n --breakin' ~. Breaking is burgling, from \"breaking in\". A lay is a\nplace where a theft can be committed." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "lily - a lily is a credulous person, a born sucker. I took it in Wolfe to\nmean \"believable.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "nanny nipper - a nanny is a brothel. A nipper is a cutpurse or\npickpocket; to nip or to nipper is to arrest. No listing for the two\ntogether, so you'll have to find it elsewhere or make a guess from context.\n\nThanks in advance!\n\n=mantis=" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yer welcuhm. Ifn you have more, lemme know, and that's lily.\n\nNutricious" } ] } ] }