{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/421", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 421, "subject": "A couple of points", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1997-09-02T17:24:48+00:00", "last": "1997-09-03T14:19:56+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1997-09-02T17:24:48+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) A couple of points", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I do not regularly contribute to Whorl, but I've been reading the archives,\nand I had some comments. \n\nFirst, re: Seven American Nights and the egg: I believe that I have read a\ndescription of Wolfe answering the question about which egg contained the\nhallucinogen, though I do not remember the specific answer. The description\nof Wolfe's answer indicate that he seemed somewhat saddened by the fact\nthat people felt they had to ask him; I sometimes suspect that Wolfe is\nupset by the degree to which we the readers attribute to him both\ninfalibility and infinite cleverness. Generally, there are answers to any\nquestion we might have, and we just have to ask the text correctly.\n\nSecond, I have a question about how long the _Whorl_ was actually in\nflight, and have not been able to find any discusson of this particular\npiece, nor is my memory of the text good enough to confirm it. Sometime in\nthe portion of the novel in which Rose/Marble sees the airship, she thinks\nabout how long she's been around, and comes up with an answer of three\nhundred years. Then she realizes that she must have misplaced a decimal\nsomewhere. \n\nDoes anyone else have any memory of this? The dilapidation of the _Whorl_\nis much more credible if it has been in flight for 3000 years. Certainly\nthe engineers of the _Whorl_ would not have designed a ship that would be\ncompletely falling apart less than 10% beyond the expected travel-time of\nthe ship?\n\nYours, \nWombat\n\nKevin Maroney\t\tkmaroney at crossover.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor\tNew York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1997-09-03T14:19:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) A couple of points", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "When Kypris shows Silk the picture of Pas, with Silk as one of the heads,\nI asked \"which head\"? Is this a picture of the original plan where\nTyphon's \"head\" rules Silk's body? Is Kypris turning it around, offering\nto download Silk's personality and use Silk's \"head\" to rule the\npartially\nassembled Pas program? I wouldn't be surprised if she did that with or\nwithout Silk's consent and that in the next series we find that \"Pas\" is\nnow an amalgam of Silk and Typhon." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cool. I hadn't really thought of that. Godly duplicity again. Seems more\nthan reasonable, despite Typhon's apparent rehabilitation, that Silk,\nalready accepted as Calde, would merely be used as a mount. Although, as I\nquibbled (much) earlier, I have trouble with Pas having to graft his head\nonto some hapless subject for locomotive and presentational reasons when\nthe technology for personality downloading existed. His appearance as the\ntwo-headed one in tBotNS indicates that he never availed of this\ntechnology. Why not? Although, quibbles aside, I agree that Kypris'\ndepiction of Silk's head sharing a body with Typhon is, at the very least,\nambiguous.\n\nlasrach\n\n\n----------" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Straight \nTo: whorl at lists.best.com\nSubject: Re: (whorl) A couple of points\nDate: Wednesday, September 03, 1997 1:30 PM\n\n\n[Posted from WHORL, the mailing list for Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long\nSun]\n\n\nOn Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Kevin J. Maroney wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Second, I have a question about how long the _Whorl_ was actually in\nflight, and have not been able to find any discusson of this particular\npiece, nor is my memory of the text good enough to confirm it. Sometime\nin\nthe portion of the novel in which Rose/Marble sees the airship, she\nthinks\nabout how long she's been around, and comes up with an answer of three\nhundred years. Then she realizes that she must have misplaced a decimal\nsomewhere. \n\nDoes anyone else have any memory of this? The dilapidation of the\n_Whorl_\nis much more credible if it has been in flight for 3000 years." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Certainly" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "the engineers of the _Whorl_ would not have designed a ship that would\nbe\ncompletely falling apart less than 10% beyond the expected travel-time\nof\nthe ship?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some points that might explain the condition of the Whorl after only 300\nyears:\n\n1) When Silk meets the woman in the tunnels who had been in suspended\nanimation, I seem to remember her making some comment to the effect that\nthe \"cargo\" had had their memories tampered with, which would explain how\nknowledge of the Whorl's nature had expired.\n\n2) For some reason, people are using as currency computer cards that are\nnecessary to run the Whorl. Vital components may have been raided by\npeople in search of \"money.\"\n\n3) The children of Pas have \"killed\" (or at least temporarily disabled) \nhim, apparently so that their toys (the people) won't be able to leave\nthe\nship. They may have dammaged the ship in their battle with him, or\npurposely sabotaged it to keep people from leaving. \n\n4) The Whorl may be set so that the sun starts to fail when it reaches\nits destination so that the colonists are forced to disembark. Or maybe\nPas, knowing that he was being hunted, in addition to saving bits of\nhimself in various places, set the sun to self-destruct so that even if\nhe\nwas killed, his children couldn't keep the colonists in the ship forever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Does anyone else agree with the idea that bioengineered people like Silk\nand Chenille were originally intended to be permanent host bodies for Pas\nand his children so they could continue to rule when the colonists\ndisembarked?\n\nWhen Kypris shows Silk the picture of Pas, with Silk as one of the heads,\nI asked \"which head\"? Is this a picture of the original plan where\nTyphon's \"head\" rules Silk's body? Is Kypris turning it around, offering\nto download Silk's personality and use Silk's \"head\" to rule the\npartially\nassembled Pas program? I wouldn't be surprised if she did that with or\nwithout Silk's consent and that in the next series we find that \"Pas\" is\nnow an amalgam of Silk and Typhon.\n\n-Rostrum\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1997-09-03T08:30:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) A couple of points", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Kevin J. Maroney wrote:\nSecond, I have a question about how long the _Whorl_ was actually in\nflight, and have not been able to find any discusson of this particular\npiece, nor is my memory of the text good enough to confirm it. Sometime in\nthe portion of the novel in which Rose/Marble sees the airship, she thinks\nabout how long she's been around, and comes up with an answer of three\nhundred years. Then she realizes that she must have misplaced a decimal\nsomewhere. \n\nDoes anyone else have any memory of this? The dilapidation of the _Whorl_\nis much more credible if it has been in flight for 3000 years. Certainly\nthe engineers of the _Whorl_ would not have designed a ship that would be\ncompletely falling apart less than 10% beyond the expected travel-time of\nthe ship?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some points that might explain the condition of the Whorl after only 300\nyears:\n\n1) When Silk meets the woman in the tunnels who had been in suspended\nanimation, I seem to remember her making some comment to the effect that\nthe \"cargo\" had had their memories tampered with, which would explain how\nknowledge of the Whorl's nature had expired.\n\n2) For some reason, people are using as currency computer cards that are\nnecessary to run the Whorl. Vital components may have been raided by\npeople in search of \"money.\"\n\n3) The children of Pas have \"killed\" (or at least temporarily disabled) \nhim, apparently so that their toys (the people) won't be able to leave the\nship. They may have dammaged the ship in their battle with him, or\npurposely sabotaged it to keep people from leaving. \n\n4) The Whorl may be set so that the sun starts to fail when it reaches\nits destination so that the colonists are forced to disembark. Or maybe\nPas, knowing that he was being hunted, in addition to saving bits of\nhimself in various places, set the sun to self-destruct so that even if he\nwas killed, his children couldn't keep the colonists in the ship forever. \n\nDoes anyone else agree with the idea that bioengineered people like Silk\nand Chenille were originally intended to be permanent host bodies for Pas\nand his children so they could continue to rule when the colonists\ndisembarked?\n\nWhen Kypris shows Silk the picture of Pas, with Silk as one of the heads,\nI asked \"which head\"? Is this a picture of the original plan where\nTyphon's \"head\" rules Silk's body? Is Kypris turning it around, offering\nto download Silk's personality and use Silk's \"head\" to rule the partially\nassembled Pas program? I wouldn't be surprised if she did that with or\nwithout Silk's consent and that in the next series we find that \"Pas\" is\nnow an amalgam of Silk and Typhon.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alastair Reynolds", "address": "a.reynolds at fys.ruu.nl" }, "date": "1997-09-03T07:29:36+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) A couple of points", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wombat:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Second, I have a question about how long the _Whorl_ was actually in\nflight, and have not been able to find any discusson of this particular\npiece, nor is my memory of the text good enough to confirm it. Sometime in\nthe portion of the novel in which Rose/Marble sees the airship, she thinks\nabout how long she's been around, and comes up with an answer of three\nhundred years. Then she realizes that she must have misplaced a decimal\nsomewhere. \n\nDoes anyone else have any memory of this? The dilapidation of the _Whorl_\nis much more credible if it has been in flight for 3000 years. Certainly\nthe engineers of the _Whorl_ would not have designed a ship that would be\ncompletely falling apart less than 10% beyond the expected travel-time of\nthe ship?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "it didn't seem long enough to me either - not just from the point of view\nof how rundown everything was, but how comprehensively the origins of\nthe Whorl had been forgotten.\n\nWas it not also the case that the Whorl had arrived at its target system\nat least a century earlier, long enough for Quetzal to get aboard and\ninfiltrate things?\n\nal (should re-read these buggers!)" } ] } ] }