{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/456",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 456,
    "subject": "Lilies, quits and balls",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1997-10-25T20:18:21+00:00",
    "last": "1997-10-25T20:18:21+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0008-0608@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Gordon Brain",
        "address": "gobrain at netcomuk.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "1997-10-25T20:18:21+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Lilies, quits and balls",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Hello. I'm new to this list and this is my first message to it. I've only\nrecently got access to the Internet. As an enthusiastic reader of Gene\nWolfe's work, one of the first things I did was to search for items on that\nsubject. Thus I discovered this mailing list, and, to my surprise\ndiscovered my own name mentioned in it.\nIt was in a message from Michael, aka Mantis, dated 12 Sept 97, in which he\nmentioned some points I raised in a letter to him about his booklets. After\nthat I thought I'd better join in. So here goes:\n\nI am interested in the words Wolfe uses and their origins, e.g. the use of\ncant in the Long Sun volumes. Some of the terms, apparently derived by\nWolfe from 18th century thieves' slang, were familiar to me, as they're\nstill in common use over here (e.g. 'shag', which is neither a bird nor a\ndance in this context, as I see has been pointed out previously). Others\nseemed to have a ring about them which suggested they might be rhyming\nslang – e.g. 'lily' (short for lily white = right, as in Cockney slang, the\nword which actually contains the rhyme is often dropped, making the jargon\ndoubly obscure to outsiders, as in 'butcher's', from butcher's hook =\nlook). I think there are more of this sort, but I haven't worked them out\nyet.\n\nAlso on the subject of cant, there was a message from Doug Eigsti, dated  8\nJan 97, where  he gave 'we're quits' = we're outta here. I'm not sure if\nit's just a British usage, but I always understood  'we're quits' to mean\n'we're even' i.e. neither side is indebted to the other, which seems to tie\nin with the meaning of the passage (I, 24)\n\nRe. the other point in Michael's message, about Wolfe's mother's family\norigins in Ayr, Scotland, I got that from correspondence with the man\nhimself, which was a point of interest as it is also my home country. \n\nI have just started to reread the Long Sun books, which as you'll all no\ndoubt appreciate is a quite different but rewarding experience. One thing I\nnoticed was the nature of the ball game, during which Silk receives\nenlightenment. I've seen this referred to somewhere as a basketball game,\nbut it doesn't sound like one to me. For one thing he puts the ball in his\npocket at the end – he'd have to have pretty big pockets for a basketball.\nAlso, the double score for the ball bouncing back through the ring sounds\nnew.  I wondered if it might be something akin to the ball games played by\nthe Aztecs and Maya. \n\nThis might tie in a bit with a Latin American feel to some aspects of\nViron, e.g. the Spanish terms for government offices and institutions, the\ndrinking of mate and some superficial similarities of the state religion.\n(Not to mention the possibly South American origin of the population of the\nwhorl, assuming Typhon's domain included the area comprising the later\nCommonwealth). On the other hand it could just be a game which I haven't\nheard of. Does anyone else have ideas on this?\n\nTo change the subject, a book I read recently which readers of Wolfe might\nenjoy is The Mask Of The Sorcerer by Darrell Schweitzer. Set in a vaguely\n(but not explicitly) ancient Egyptian setting, the narrative does have a\nWolfean (Wolfish? what is the adjective to use here?) feel to it, although\nthe story and characters are totally different. I'd recommend it anyway. It\nalso gets an endorsement from Wolfe himself on the back cover.\n\nFinally, while 'mining the archives' I noticed references to a comic book\nadaptation of part of the Book of the New Sun, and an audiobook version of\nSoldier In The Mist. If anybody could give me any clues as to how to get\nhold of copies of either of these I'd be very grateful.\n\nThat's it for now. All the best,\n\nGordon (I've already got a serviceable Vironese surname, so need for a\nnickname, I suppose)."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}