# Whorl Name and a theory... *The Whorl list — 5 messages, 3 voices, 15 May 1998* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Dan'l Danehy Oakes *15 May 1998, 09:16* Rostrum Rote: > There are lots of passages where people use the same syntax > as if they were going to say "world" but say "whorl" instead. > Stuff like, "She's the most beautiful woman in the whole > Whorl!" or "Unlike Pas and Scylla and the other gods, the > Outsider exists outside the Whorl." -- in fact, in the language of the Long Sun, the word "whorl" has replaced the word "world" entirely; they talk about Urth as the "Short Sun Whorl", ask questions like, "What in the Whorl are you talking about?", etc. I think there's something more going on here than meets the eye (With Wolfe? Heaven forfend!), but I'm not quite clear on _what_ it is. A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider (= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus and Peter) made the World; the gods (= Typhon et famille) made the Whorl. The Whorl is not the World but isolated from it, a place where Typhon et alia can _be_ gods (because God is specifically _excluded_). But they couldn't _quite_ pull it off. This (if this theory proves out -- I think it warrants a good look) is where one of the most interesting pieces of narrational twisting in all of Wolfe takes place. We are told (by whom? Can't recall!) that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory of _them_ from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- aggrandizing style. Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk). Just a thought, --Roach --- ### Michael Straight *18 May 1998, 10:31 · follows Dan'l Danehy Oakes* > On 15 May 1998, Dan'l Danehy Oakes wrote: > We are told (by whom? Can't recall!) > that Typhon and company were unable to completely erase memory > of _them_ from the starcrossers' brains. But they wouldn't > want to do that; it's totally against Typhon's utterly self- > aggrandizing style. > > Rather, I suggest, they tried to erase memory of God from > the starcrossers -- and were unsuccessful (as they were also > unsuccessful in keeping Him out), so that He made it into the > prophetic "chrasmologic" writings (as He also made it into > the Whorl by enlightening the sacrificial vessel Silk). The way I read that business is that Typhon et. al. wanted to erase the starcrossers' memories of Typhon the Tyrant and replace them with memories of Allfather Pas the Omnibenificent who, when they arrived at their destination, would be incarnated into a human form (the original purpose of Silk's body?) and be their Divine Ruler. Erasing all memory of the true God would be a necessary part of this plan and (because he *is* the true God) was not entirely successful, as you point out. -Rostrum --- ### Kevin J. Maroney *18 May 1998, 12:42 · follows Michael Straight* > At 09:16 AM 5/15/98 -0700, Dan'l (Robin) wrote: > A thought does occur, of a sudden, though ... the Outsider > (= God, the one-and-only God of Abraham and Moses, of Jesus > and Peter).... Strictly speaking, I believe the only other name we're given for the Outsider is Allah. I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major source for Wolfe. Wombat ``` -- Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190 ``` --- ### Michael Straight *18 May 1998, 16:53 · follows Kevin J. Maroney* > On Mon, 18 May 1998, Kevin J. Maroney wrote: > I was interested to discover Pausinas's description of altars to "the > unknown gods" in his tourbook of 2nd-century c.e. Greece--obviously a major > source for Wolfe. Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament: Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23). -Rostrum --- ### Kevin J. Maroney *18 May 1998, 17:15 · follows Michael Straight* > At 04:53 PM 5/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > Although I would not be surprised if Wolfe had read Pausinas, I think a > more obvious source is St. Paul in the New Testament: > > Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: "Men of > Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked > around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an > altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as > something unknown I am going to proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23). I'd forgotten that one. But the use of the Outsider in the standard prayers in _Long Sun_ is quite similar to the Unknown Gods in Pausinas--as a catch-all for those Gods who are possibly forgotten or possibly never known but still deserve mention because, hey, they're *gods*. ``` Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190 ``` ---