{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/492", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 492, "subject": "unsuscrible-Digest whorl.v008.n053", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-07-17T16:28:20+00:00", "last": "1998-07-17T16:28:20+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Internet Megantic", "address": "support at megantic.net" }, "date": "1998-07-17T16:28:20+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) unsuscrible-Digest whorl.v008.n053", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 14:10 16-07-98 -0700, you wrote:\n\n-------------- BEGIN whorl.v008.n053 --------------\n\n 001 - Michael Straight \nSubject: Re: Fwd: (whorl) Gods\nDate: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:50:34 -0400 (EDT)\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII\nIn-Reply-To: \n\nOn Wed, 15 Jul 1998, prion lots of really nifty background on the names\nWolfe used for the gods of the Whorl, including:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I think something important may be in an analysis of the Mainframe\ngods' names in relation to their characteristics.\n \nPas: Greek for all. Pseudonym Typhon uses. Typhon or Typhoeus was\neither a giant or a many-headed dragon that breathed fire who defeated\nthe gods and cut out Zeus' muscles until Zeus regained them and buried\nhim under Mt. Etna, or some other volcano or in the region of\nTartaros." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hmmm. Typhon the many-headed. Since the whole point of Typhon grafting\nhis head onto a new body was to preserve his personal identity authority,\nit seems unlikely that he took a new name (\"Typhon\") after becoming\nmany-headed. So perhaps he got the idea from his name? " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Tartaros: Not a Greek word. God of the underworld, or the place\nitself. Child either of the original Chaos, or of Typhon and Echidna.\n Tartaros was said to be as far below Hades (also named after it's\nmaster) as Hades was below the Earth. In the Whorld Tartaros is the\ngod of night, crime, and commerce." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "'Tartaros' is not Greek? Or are you saying it's not the word for anything\nother than the god of the underworld? Webster's 17th lists 'Tartarus' and\nsays it's from the Greek.\n\nWhen you say \"or of Typhon and Echidna\" do you mean that in Wolfe's story\nhe's their child, or is that also true in Greek myth?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Hierax. Greek for eagle. The eagle who tormented Prometheus, by\neating his liver each day, which grew back. Child of Typhon and\nEchidna, or others. In the Whorl the god of death, who likes to\ntorment others." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Again, is Hierax the offspring of Typhon and Echidna in Greek myth as\nwell? I had no idea so much of the Whorl mythos came straight from the\nGreek. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Looking over the list, it seems that about every \"god\" has a serious\nmental problem. Typhon is monomaniacal, Scylla is egotistic, Hierax\nis sadistic, Sphigx is hyperaggressive, Molpe has fits of insanity,\nThelxiepeia was probably a drug addict and poisoner, Phaea eats too\nmuch, and Kypris is a nymphomaniac. Any ideas about the others'\npossible problems?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Tartaros is blind. Not a mental problem, but a similar theme, perhaps.\nYou'd think Typhon would have used genetic engineering or married better\nbreeding stock to have more perfect children.\n\nI love the bit where Tartaros tells Auk, \"You can't see me because I'm\nblind.\" \n\n-Rostrum\n\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.2 ---------------\n\nFrom: mary whalen \nSubject: (whorl) Greek Gods\nDate: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:22:45 -0700 (PDT)\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: multipart/mixed;" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "boundary=\"-2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Disposition: inline\n\n\n\nnote: forwarded msg attached.\n\nOops. Looks like I sent this to the Urth list first.\n\n\n_________________________________________________________\nDO YOU YAHOO!?\nGet your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com\n\n---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833\nContent-Type: message/rfc822\n\nReceived: from [207.50.113.29] by send1b; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 PDT\nDate: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 -0700 (PDT)\nFrom: mary whalen \nSubject: (urth) Greek Gods\nTo: urth at lists.best.com\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Length: 2534\n\nThis is Sean Whalen (prion).\n\nRostrum, I'm always happy to elaborate.\n\nAll the gods/monsters from Greek mythology which I said had names that\naren't Greek words had their names borrowed from the names of other\ngods who were not Greek, or else the origin of their name is unknown\nbut doesn't seem to come from a Greek word. Tartaros is probably\ncomes from a word that the people who lived in Greece before the\nGreeks came had. Thyone and her older name Semele are apparently the\nnames of non-Greek gods who came to be worshipped by the Greeks. \nCatamitus is how the Romans pronounced Ganymedes (in English Ganymede)\nwhich is not a Greek word either, and it's origin is unknown.\n\nWhen I say that a monster is the child of Typhon and Echidna or\nothers, I mean that in the Greek legends it is uncertain because some\nlegends say one thing that others disagree with. All of the people\nwho are children of T and E on the Whorl have the names of\nmonsters/gods who were said to be the children of the Greek T and E in\nat least one source, though there is disagreement concerning every\nsingle one of them. It is even uncertain if in the Greek myths T and\nE were brother and sister, if Typhon and Typhoeus are two different\npeople, and if Typhon is Typhoeus' father, or vice versa.\n\nYes, much of the Whorl religion is based directly on Greek sources.\n\nTartaros being blind. Yes; and it is possible that this is a problem\nof his brain, rather than his eyes, which would fit in with the rest\nof his family. It certainly would be odd for his eyes to be\nirreplaceable, especially since Typhon wouldn't have minded using any\navailable source for replacements.\n\n\nI think I have some new thoughts on Pas' name. In Greek pas if the\nmasculine form of the word \"all.\" The neuter form of this word is\npan. Wolfe said he once thought that the Greek god Pan was the word\nfor all, and that he used to be the main god that the Greeks\nworshipped. He was corrected by someone who wrote a letter to him. \nActually, Pan's name is a masculine word, just like the names of all\nmale Greek gods. It would be odd for him to be the only male with a\nneuter name. Pan comes from a shortening of the older form Paon,\nwhich comes from the word for \"feeder\" and is related to his Roman\nequivalent Faunus. Wolfe probably had Typhon use this name because he\nis also not the god of all, as his name is taken by everyone else.\n\nprion\n_________________________________________________________\nDO YOU YAHOO!?\nGet your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com\n\n\n---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833--\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.3 ---------------\n\nFrom: \"Mark Millman\" \nSubject: apology\nDate: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:31:48 -0400\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii\nContent-Disposition: inline\n\nFolks,\n\nI'm writing to apologize in advance for a pointless note that I'll be\nsending to some of you. I'm going on vacation for a week, and have (I\nhope) set my mail program to generate an automatic response to all incoming\nmail. The program I'm using, however, won't allow me to exclude certain\nclasses of message, so that anyone who writes to me will get the response\n\n\nwhether they should or not. I have, however, set the device to generate\nonly one response per correspondent, rather than one response to each\nmessage. So I'm sorry for sending you the pointless note, but at least\nyou'll only see it once.\n\nMark Millman\n\n\n\n\n--------------- END whorl.v008.n053 ---------------\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }