# unsuscrible-Digest whorl.v008.n053 *The Whorl list — 1 messages, 1 voices, 17 Jul 1998* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Internet Megantic *17 Jul 1998, 16:28* > At 14:10 16-07-98 -0700, you wrote: > > -------------- BEGIN whorl.v008.n053 -------------- > > 001 - Michael Straight 002 - mary whalen 003 - "Mark Millman" > WHORL Digest -- for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun > > > --------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.1 --------------- > > From: Michael Straight > Subject: Re: Fwd: (whorl) Gods > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:50:34 -0400 (EDT) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > In-Reply-To: > > On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, prion lots of really nifty background on the names > Wolfe used for the gods of the Whorl, including: >> I think something important may be in an analysis of the Mainframe >> gods' names in relation to their characteristics. >> >> Pas: Greek for all. Pseudonym Typhon uses. Typhon or Typhoeus was >> either a giant or a many-headed dragon that breathed fire who defeated >> the gods and cut out Zeus' muscles until Zeus regained them and buried >> him under Mt. Etna, or some other volcano or in the region of >> Tartaros. > Hmmm. Typhon the many-headed. Since the whole point of Typhon grafting > his head onto a new body was to preserve his personal identity authority, > it seems unlikely that he took a new name ("Typhon") after becoming > many-headed. So perhaps he got the idea from his name? >> Tartaros: Not a Greek word. God of the underworld, or the place >> itself. Child either of the original Chaos, or of Typhon and Echidna. >> Tartaros was said to be as far below Hades (also named after it's >> master) as Hades was below the Earth. In the Whorld Tartaros is the >> god of night, crime, and commerce. > 'Tartaros' is not Greek? Or are you saying it's not the word for anything > other than the god of the underworld? Webster's 17th lists 'Tartarus' and > says it's from the Greek. > > When you say "or of Typhon and Echidna" do you mean that in Wolfe's story > he's their child, or is that also true in Greek myth? >> Hierax. Greek for eagle. The eagle who tormented Prometheus, by >> eating his liver each day, which grew back. Child of Typhon and >> Echidna, or others. In the Whorl the god of death, who likes to >> torment others. > Again, is Hierax the offspring of Typhon and Echidna in Greek myth as > well? I had no idea so much of the Whorl mythos came straight from the > Greek. >> Looking over the list, it seems that about every "god" has a serious >> mental problem. Typhon is monomaniacal, Scylla is egotistic, Hierax >> is sadistic, Sphigx is hyperaggressive, Molpe has fits of insanity, >> Thelxiepeia was probably a drug addict and poisoner, Phaea eats too >> much, and Kypris is a nymphomaniac. Any ideas about the others' >> possible problems? > Tartaros is blind. Not a mental problem, but a similar theme, perhaps. > You'd think Typhon would have used genetic engineering or married better > breeding stock to have more perfect children. > > I love the bit where Tartaros tells Auk, "You can't see me because I'm > blind." > > -Rostrum > > > > --------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.2 --------------- > > From: mary whalen > Subject: (whorl) Greek Gods > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:22:45 -0700 (PDT) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833" > ---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > > > note: forwarded msg attached. > > Oops. Looks like I sent this to the Urth list first. > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833 > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > > Received: from [207.50.113.29] by send1b; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 PDT > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 17:15:27 -0700 (PDT) > From: mary whalen > Subject: (urth) Greek Gods > To: urth at lists.best.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Length: 2534 > > This is Sean Whalen (prion). > > Rostrum, I'm always happy to elaborate. > > All the gods/monsters from Greek mythology which I said had names that > aren't Greek words had their names borrowed from the names of other > gods who were not Greek, or else the origin of their name is unknown > but doesn't seem to come from a Greek word. Tartaros is probably > comes from a word that the people who lived in Greece before the > Greeks came had. Thyone and her older name Semele are apparently the > names of non-Greek gods who came to be worshipped by the Greeks. > Catamitus is how the Romans pronounced Ganymedes (in English Ganymede) > which is not a Greek word either, and it's origin is unknown. > > When I say that a monster is the child of Typhon and Echidna or > others, I mean that in the Greek legends it is uncertain because some > legends say one thing that others disagree with. All of the people > who are children of T and E on the Whorl have the names of > monsters/gods who were said to be the children of the Greek T and E in > at least one source, though there is disagreement concerning every > single one of them. It is even uncertain if in the Greek myths T and > E were brother and sister, if Typhon and Typhoeus are two different > people, and if Typhon is Typhoeus' father, or vice versa. > > Yes, much of the Whorl religion is based directly on Greek sources. > > Tartaros being blind. Yes; and it is possible that this is a problem > of his brain, rather than his eyes, which would fit in with the rest > of his family. It certainly would be odd for his eyes to be > irreplaceable, especially since Typhon wouldn't have minded using any > available source for replacements. > > > I think I have some new thoughts on Pas' name. In Greek pas if the > masculine form of the word "all." The neuter form of this word is > pan. Wolfe said he once thought that the Greek god Pan was the word > for all, and that he used to be the main god that the Greeks > worshipped. He was corrected by someone who wrote a letter to him. > Actually, Pan's name is a masculine word, just like the names of all > male Greek gods. It would be odd for him to be the only male with a > neuter name. Pan comes from a shortening of the older form Paon, > which comes from the word for "feeder" and is related to his Roman > equivalent Faunus. Wolfe probably had Typhon use this name because he > is also not the god of all, as his name is taken by everyone else. > > prion > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ---2131475428-838545539-900548565=:22833-- > > > --------------- MESSAGE whorl.v008.n053.3 --------------- > > From: "Mark Millman" > Subject: apology > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:31:48 -0400 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > Folks, > > I'm writing to apologize in advance for a pointless note that I'll be > sending to some of you. I'm going on vacation for a week, and have (I > hope) set my mail program to generate an automatic response to all incoming > mail. The program I'm using, however, won't allow me to exclude certain > classes of message, so that anyone who writes to me will get the response > > > whether they should or not. I have, however, set the device to generate > only one response per correspondent, rather than one response to each > message. So I'm sorry for sending you the pointless note, but at least > you'll only see it once. > > Mark Millman > > > > > --------------- END whorl.v008.n053 --------------- > > > *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---