{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/575", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 575, "subject": "Theophanies, Silk's end", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1998-11-02T14:30:08+00:00", "last": "1998-11-04T16:15:20+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "al at interport.net" }, "date": "1998-11-04T09:22:49+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Theophanies, Silk's end", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Greg Neyman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "A New Question: In Calde, Quetzal mentions that he's done his all he\ncould\nto ensure that theophanies stop occurring in Viron ... I never really\nunderstood why ... does it get explained elsewhere in an oblique manner\n...\nor not at all?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We do learn of one thing: Quetzal banned human sacrifice." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Greg, I don't think it's \"explained,\" but does it need to be? Once you've\nhad a look at Echidna and Scylla in action, wouldn't you do your best to\nkeep them off-screen as well? Plus there is the destruction of the Pas\nprogram, which may have loosed the others to do their worst. Quetzal,\ndespite his need for a meal beyond beef tea once is a while, generally seems\nto be a benign figure.\n\nFrom Rostrum:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I predict that if we see Silk at all in the Short Sun books, it will be as\npart of a Silk/Pas amalgram residing in Mainframe." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you want to make a bet of it, I'll take it. I haven't got much of an\nargument except that, speaking editorially, too much is unresolved at the\nend of Exodus. There is the new murkiness in Silk's disposition and demeanor\nthat someone spoke of earlier. There is the question of Hy's allegiance.\nThere are the taluses under construction. It is true that we might not meet\nSilk again directly (I will be sorry for that) but we will have to hear the\nend of his tale. I reject the Silk/Pas amalgam because it's so baldly a\nvariant of the demonic offer of world control, and Silk really is a\n\"beautiful man.\"\n\n-alga\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1998-11-02T14:30:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Theophanies, Silk's end", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga said:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I reject the Silk/Pas amalgam because it's so baldly a" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "variant of the demonic offer of world control, and Silk really is a\n\"beautiful man.\" <\n\nThat's assuming Silk had any choice in the matter. There's reason to believe\nthat Silk's downloaded personality may have been grafted onto the incomplete\nPas persona without Silk's consent. (Or so I seem to remember).\n\nKieran C.\n\n\nNorth West Labs\nFinisklin Industrial Estate\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-11-04T16:15:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Theophanies, Silk's end", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alice Turner wrote:\nGreg, I don't think it's \"explained,\" but does it need to be? Once you've\nhad a look at Echidna and Scylla in action, wouldn't you do your best to\nkeep them off-screen as well? Plus there is the destruction of the Pas\nprogram, which may have loosed the others to do their worst. Quetzal,\ndespite his need for a meal beyond beef tea once is a while, generally seems\nto be a benign figure." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Quetzal appears benign from the point of view of the human protagonists. But\nhis motives are not explained to them, or to us. Why does he want to see the\ncompletion of the Plan of Paz? It's outcome would be to send humans to either\nBlue or Green - the one to a fragile saftey, the other to what is seemingly\nthe home of the vampires. It looked to me as if he was seeking to send a new\nfood supply to his relatives. Not so benign really.\n\nMatthew\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1998-11-04T14:19:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Theophanies, Silk's end", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Wed, 4 Nov 1998, Alice Turner wrote:\nI predict that if we see Silk at all in the Short Sun books, it will be as\npart of a Silk/Pas amalgram residing in Mainframe." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "If you want to make a bet of it, I'll take it. I haven't got much of an\nargument except that, speaking editorially, too much is unresolved at the\nend of Exodus. There is the new murkiness in Silk's disposition and demeanor\nthat someone spoke of earlier. There is the question of Hy's allegiance.\nThere are the taluses under construction. It is true that we might not meet\nSilk again directly (I will be sorry for that) but we will have to hear the\nend of his tale. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Editorially speaking, I think that what you're expressing is properly a\ncriticism of Exodus, rather than a good reason to continue Silk's story in\nthe Short Sun books. Unless Silk is the central character of the Short\nSun books. It seems sloppy to write 4 books about a character and then\nhave the resolution of his story take place in another set of books that\ncenter on other characters.\n\nI think that criticism can be rebutted, that Silk's sudden disappearance\ncan be seen as an artistically satisfying ending to the series, that the\ndetails of talus construction are not foreshadowing but the explanation of\nwhere these strange beasts come from, that we might still see more of Hy\nwithout necessarily giving Silk center stage again.\n\nSilk's disapearance fits in well with the Christ imagery. It's straight\nout of Acts chapter 1. Silk is victorious and his followers think he's\nabout to lead them to a new kingdom, and then he disappears leaving them\nto remember him as best they can and work things out on their own. Thus\nsetting the stage for his Second Coming from the glory of Mainframe..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I reject the Silk/Pas amalgam because it's so baldly a\nvariant of the demonic offer of world control, and Silk really is a\n\"beautiful man.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes it is, but I'm also of the camp that, if this happened/happens, it\nwouldn't be something Silk had a choice about. \n\nI am perhaps still too enamored of the theory that Silk was originally\nintended to be the host body for Pas when the Starcrosser reached\nlandfall, the Piaton that Typhon's \"head\" would be grafted onto. \n\nFrom which might lead the (for me irresistable) irony of a crippled Pas\nprogram which needs a new \"head\" personality from Silk to run it and make\nit strong enough to win back Mainframe from Echidna and the kids. \n\n-Rostrum\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }