Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun

Kevin J. Maroney16 Feb 1999, 10:28original

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At 11:19 PM 2/15/99 -0600, Robert Patterson wrote: I searched the archives and also for a FAQ, but I cannot find any discussion of direct links between New Sun & Long Sun. Has anyone proved that they are from the same universe? Or do we simply take it on faith because Amazon says so? (I worry that this is a bone-crushingly stupid question, but I can't remember any obvious connections.)

The link is explicit, but like so many things in Wolfe's works, is mentioned only once, and you have to make the connection yourself. Somewhere in Lake of the Long Sun, one of the characters (Cypris, if I recall correctly) mentions that before he entered Mainframe, Pas's name was Typhon. So it is clear that the Whorl was built and launched by Typhon, the two-headed tyrant autarch of long-ago, whom Severian meets in Sword of the Lictor. That's the only explicit connection between the two works that I've seen or heard. Other links have been guessed at, but as nearly as I can tell, there is no conclusive evidence about them.

Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190 *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Kieran Cleary16 Feb 1999, 15:51original

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Well there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris' temptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking for two-headed tyrants...... There may have been a mural as well, but I can't quite remember. Kieran C. North West Labs Finisklin Industrial Estate Sligo Republic of Ireland Tel. +353 71 69441 Fax. +353 71 69451 email: kierannwn at tinet.ie *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Kevin J. Maroney16 Feb 1999, 11:35original

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At 03:51 PM 2/16/99 -0000, Kieran wrote: Well there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris' temptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking for two-headed tyrants......

Pas is depicted as two-headed throughout Long Sun--I believe that the description of the mural in the auditorium in the brothel in Nightside mentions his two heads (and two penises, since the mural is a blasphemous ribaldry). Pas being two-headed would not be an explicit link to New Sun. But people probably would have made the connection even without Kypris's comment--I can't imagine Mantis not having noticed it eventually, for instance, and I distinctly remember that when I read that sentence in Lake, I slapped myself on the forehead (literally!) for not having made the connection myself. Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Charles Dye17 Feb 1999, 09:43original

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At 10:10 PM 2/16/99, Robert Patterson wrote: I noticed in the archives a discussion of the derivation of some of the Long Sun words. The one I saw for "talus" failed to give the most important reference. Talus was a demigod character in Spencer's "The Fairie Queen" who accompanied one of the knights on many of his adventures. He was invincibly strong, fairly stupid, and rather unpleasant for a "good" guy. His whole purpose was to implement justice untempered by mercy or extenuating circumstances. In one scene he slaughtered an entire town for a minor infraction. He was similar to Long Sun taluses in many important ways, and I am certain that is where Wolfe got the name.

Not bad. Not bad at all -- this fits the Long Sun taluses nicely! But doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos entry in "Onomastics?" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter XXXV of Sword -- there's one small connection for you. raster at highfiber.com *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

Robert Patterson17 Feb 1999, 11:14original

↳ follows, by subject match Charles Dye

Charles Dye:

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But doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos entry in "Onomastics?" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter XXXV of Sword -- there's one small connection for you.

Okay. Perhaps Wolfe & Edmund Spencer read some of the same books! Robert *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun.

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