{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/590", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 590, "subject": "Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "1999-02-16T10:28:37+00:00", "last": "1999-02-17T11:14:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1999-02-16T10:28:37+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:19 PM 2/15/99 -0600, Robert Patterson wrote:\nI searched the archives and also for a FAQ, but I cannot find any\ndiscussion of direct links between New Sun & Long Sun. Has anyone proved\nthat they are from the same universe? Or do we simply take it on faith\nbecause Amazon says so? (I worry that this is a bone-crushingly stupid\nquestion, but I can't remember any obvious connections.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The link is explicit, but like so many things in Wolfe's works, is\nmentioned only once, and you have to make the connection yourself. \n\nSomewhere in _Lake of the Long Sun_, one of the characters (Cypris, if I\nrecall correctly) mentions that before he entered Mainframe, Pas's name was\nTyphon. \n\nSo it is clear that the _Whorl_ was built and launched by Typhon, the\ntwo-headed tyrant autarch of long-ago, whom Severian meets in _Sword of the\nLictor_. \n\nThat's the only explicit connection between the two works that I've seen or\nheard. Other links have been guessed at, but as nearly as I can tell, there\nis no conclusive evidence about them. " }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": " Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies \n kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1999-02-16T15:51:50+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris'\ntemptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking\nfor two-headed tyrants......\n\nThere may have been a mural as well, but I can't quite remember.\n\nKieran C.\n\nNorth West Labs\nFinisklin Industrial Estate\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1999-02-16T11:35:17+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 03:51 PM 2/16/99 -0000, Kieran wrote:\nWell there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris'\ntemptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking\nfor two-headed tyrants......" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Pas is depicted as two-headed throughout _Long Sun_--I believe that the\ndescription of the mural in the auditorium in the brothel in _Nightside_\nmentions his two heads (and two penises, since the mural is a blasphemous\nribaldry). \n\nPas being two-headed would not be an *explicit* link to _New Sun_. But\npeople probably would have made the connection even without Kypris's\ncomment--I can't imagine Mantis not having noticed it eventually, for\ninstance, and I distinctly remember that when I read that sentence in\n_Lake_, I slapped myself on the forehead (literally!) for not having made\nthe connection myself. \n\nWombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Charles Dye", "address": "raster at highfiber.com" }, "date": "1999-02-17T09:43:29+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 10:10 PM 2/16/99, Robert Patterson wrote:\nI noticed in the archives a discussion of the derivation of some of the\nLong Sun words. The one I saw for \"talus\" failed to give the most\nimportant reference. Talus was a demigod character in Spencer's \"The\nFairie Queen\" who accompanied one of the knights on many of his\nadventures. He was invincibly strong, fairly stupid, and rather\nunpleasant for a \"good\" guy. His whole purpose was to implement justice\nuntempered by mercy or extenuating circumstances. In one scene he\nslaughtered an entire town for a minor infraction. He was similar to\nLong Sun taluses in many important ways, and I am certain that is where\nWolfe got the name." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not bad. Not bad at all -- this fits the Long Sun taluses nicely!\n\nBut doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos\nentry in \"Onomastics?\" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter\nXXXV of _Sword_ -- there's one small connection for you.\n\nraster at highfiber.com\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Patterson", "address": "rpatterson at promus.com" }, "date": "1999-02-17T11:14:18+00:00", "subject": "RE: (whorl) Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Charles Dye:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos\nentry in \"Onomastics?\" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter\nXXXV of _Sword_ -- there's one small connection for you." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tOkay. Perhaps Wolfe & Edmund Spencer read some of the same books!\n\n\tRobert\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }