# Spoiler on the connection between New Sun/Long Sun *The Whorl list — 5 messages, 4 voices, 16 Feb 1999* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Kevin J. Maroney *16 Feb 1999, 10:28* > At 11:19 PM 2/15/99 -0600, Robert Patterson wrote: > I searched the archives and also for a FAQ, but I cannot find any > discussion of direct links between New Sun & Long Sun. Has anyone proved > that they are from the same universe? Or do we simply take it on faith > because Amazon says so? (I worry that this is a bone-crushingly stupid > question, but I can't remember any obvious connections.) The link is explicit, but like so many things in Wolfe's works, is mentioned only once, and you have to make the connection yourself. Somewhere in _Lake of the Long Sun_, one of the characters (Cypris, if I recall correctly) mentions that before he entered Mainframe, Pas's name was Typhon. So it is clear that the _Whorl_ was built and launched by Typhon, the two-headed tyrant autarch of long-ago, whom Severian meets in _Sword of the Lictor_. That's the only explicit connection between the two works that I've seen or heard. Other links have been guessed at, but as nearly as I can tell, there is no conclusive evidence about them. ``` Kevin Maroney | Crossover Technologies kmaroney at crossover.com | (212) 777-1190 *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ``` --- ### Kieran Cleary *16 Feb 1999, 15:51 · follows Kevin J. Maroney* Well there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris' temptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking for two-headed tyrants...... There may have been a mural as well, but I can't quite remember. Kieran C. North West Labs Finisklin Industrial Estate Sligo Republic of Ireland Tel. +353 71 69441 Fax. +353 71 69451 email: kierannwn at tinet.ie *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Kevin J. Maroney *16 Feb 1999, 11:35 · follows Kieran Cleary* > At 03:51 PM 2/16/99 -0000, Kieran wrote: > Well there's also the depiction of Pas as being two-headed in Kypris' > temptation of Silk at the end of Exodus. So unless Wolfe has an undue liking > for two-headed tyrants...... Pas is depicted as two-headed throughout _Long Sun_--I believe that the description of the mural in the auditorium in the brothel in _Nightside_ mentions his two heads (and two penises, since the mural is a blasphemous ribaldry). Pas being two-headed would not be an *explicit* link to _New Sun_. But people probably would have made the connection even without Kypris's comment--I can't imagine Mantis not having noticed it eventually, for instance, and I distinctly remember that when I read that sentence in _Lake_, I slapped myself on the forehead (literally!) for not having made the connection myself. Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Charles Dye *17 Feb 1999, 09:43 · follows Kevin J. Maroney* > At 10:10 PM 2/16/99, Robert Patterson wrote: > I noticed in the archives a discussion of the derivation of some of the > Long Sun words. The one I saw for "talus" failed to give the most > important reference. Talus was a demigod character in Spencer's "The > Fairie Queen" who accompanied one of the knights on many of his > adventures. He was invincibly strong, fairly stupid, and rather > unpleasant for a "good" guy. His whole purpose was to implement justice > untempered by mercy or extenuating circumstances. In one scene he > slaughtered an entire town for a minor infraction. He was similar to > Long Sun taluses in many important ways, and I am certain that is where > Wolfe got the name. Not bad. Not bad at all -- this fits the Long Sun taluses nicely! But doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos entry in "Onomastics?" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter XXXV of _Sword_ -- there's one small connection for you. raster at highfiber.com *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Robert Patterson *17 Feb 1999, 11:14 · follows Charles Dye* Charles Dye: > But doesn't Mr. Wolfe explicitly mention guard robots under the Talos > entry in "Onomastics?" A role Dr. Talos actually plays in Chapter > XXXV of _Sword_ -- there's one small connection for you. Okay. Perhaps Wolfe & Edmund Spencer read some of the same books! Robert *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---