{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/666", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 666, "subject": "Secrets & Lies", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1999-10-07T19:01:12+00:00", "last": "1999-10-19T11:02:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alice Turner", "address": "akt at attglobal.net" }, "date": "1999-10-07T19:01:12+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Secrets & Lies", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Krait's secret first turns up on p 295 and it is indeed what Horn/Silk\nthreatens the revived inhumi with. Check bottom of p 310: \"On Green I\nlearned the secret the inhumi wish nobody to know...I can threaten them as\nwell as save them.\" And again on p 315 when, to the inhuma, \"I explained\nwhat I had learned from Krait on Green.\"\n\nBut how in the hell did he know that the buried inhumi were alive? Or is the\nsecret just that and that he would tell all of Blue to burn them or shoot\nthem or whatever---nah, too simple.\n\nOkay, here's something new. Horn calls Krait a liar, p 305, and I'm sure he\nis, but in small ways, a tease really, a mischief-maker, but I don't think\nhe is a real liar with malevolent intent. What do you make of Krait's saying\nthat Seawrack \"lies constantly\" p 307? I think it's something to watch out\nfor, as in Hy's case. We've all been agreeing that she is a human woman\naltered by the Mother, and Krait (whom I would trust here) says she is, also\n307. Well, hmm. Do you think she knew what that ring was and that it would\nlead Horn to the Neighbors? I do. So whose scenario was she following? And\nwhat side is she on in that case? Horn says that Krait wants her on board\nthe lander--wonder why. She already suspects his nature, p 329.\n\nWhat I really like about the \"double\" writing is that, although Horn is\nwriting about what has already happened, for the most part, he is also\nhaving things happen to him as we go along---so the ending is not by any\nmeans already decided.\n\nOh, btw the leatherskin has six legs, not eight, and three jaws. I have\ntrouble with the three jaws--the best I can come up with is a Big Mac or\nclub sandwich, with the jaws being the pieces of bread or bun.\n\n-alga\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "William H. Ansley", "address": "wansley at warwick.net" }, "date": "1999-10-18T01:08:28+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Secrets & Lies", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have just finished OBW. I really appreciate the fact that all of the\ndiscussion of this book was restricted to the Whorl list. I have been\narchiving it, while continuing to read the Urth list, until I had a chance\nto read the book. Now that I have done so, I have caught up on what you all\nhave been saying about it: a lot of very interesting stuff, as usual!\n\nNow that I have the necessary data, my trivial mind is ready to spring into\naction, as I will demonstrate below." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Alice Turner\" wrote:\nOh, btw the leatherskin has six legs, not eight, and three jaws. I have\ntrouble with the three jaws--the best I can come up with is a Big Mac or\nclub sandwich, with the jaws being the pieces of bread or bun." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "and" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "ansible at cix.compulink.co.uk (David Langford) wrote:\nLike the three gripping segments of a drill chuck, perhaps? Of course our\nauthor must have seen a lot of those in his time." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alga,\n\nThe leatherskin very likely has twelve legs rather than six or eight. The\npassage in question is:\n\n----------------\nThe leatherskin, one of the largest I have ever seen, stood with six\nmassive legs and half its weight on the starboard gunwale, over which\nsilver water cascaded. [p. 62]\n----------------\n\nIf this creature has only six legs and all of them are on the starboard\ngunwale (rather a tricky balancing act in the first place), then how can\nthe gunwale be only bearing half its weight?\n\nSince this seems to be an aquatic beast (although this is made a bit\ndoubtful by the fact that it has claws instead of flippers--clawed flippers\nperhaps?) it makes sense (to me, at least) that it has more legs than the\nland animals.\n\n(As an aside, I find these eight-legged creatures unlikely. Unless their\nbodies are much longer relative to their height than beasts of comparable\nsize on earth--I would say they'd have to be roughly three times longer--I\ncan't see how the extra legs would do anything but get in the way. Of\ncourse, there is no reason to think that the animals on Blue don't have\nmuch longer bodies, except that Horn doesn't mention it. And since his\ndescriptions of most of the animals he sees are pretty vague, this isn't\nmuch of an argument against it.)\n\nI agree with Dave about the jaws. I imagine that it has a fixed upper jaw\n(like pretty much any large creature on earth) and two separate,\nseparately-hinged lower jaws (as if you split a crocodile's--for\nexample--lower jaw in half). The two lower jaws can close (with great\nforce) against the upper one, like \"the slamming of double doors.\" [p. 61]\n\nThe three jaws suggest that this creature belongs to a different group than\nany other legged animal (that is, excluding the devil/bat fish, etc.)\nnative to Blue mentioned in the book. If so, it could very well have a\ndifferent number of legs.\n\nWilliam Ansley\n\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Charles Dye", "address": "raster at highfiber.com" }, "date": "1999-10-19T11:02:57+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Secrets & Lies", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"William H. Ansley\" writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(As an aside, I find these eight-legged creatures unlikely. Unless their\nbodies are much longer relative to their height than beasts of comparable\nsize on earth--I would say they'd have to be roughly three times longer--I\ncan't see how the extra legs would do anything but get in the way. Of\ncourse, there is no reason to think that the animals on Blue don't have\nmuch longer bodies, except that Horn doesn't mention it. And since his\ndescriptions of most of the animals he sees are pretty vague, this isn't\nmuch of an argument against it.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think the animals *are* significantly longer than the equivalent Urth\ncreatures. Horn describes his elephant's howdah as a \"long tent,\" and\nat one point he manages to pile at least nine adults on top of the beast.\n(No trilhoen, however.)\n\nraster at highfiber.com\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }