{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/67", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 67, "subject": "Hyacinth; Kypris; Pas and more", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1997-02-04T09:58:36+00:00", "last": "1997-02-04T11:21:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David_Lebling", "address": "david_lebling at avid.com" }, "date": "1997-02-04T09:58:36+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Hyacinth; Kypris; Pas and more", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wow. Oodles of speculation recently. Everyone must have rested up over\nthe weekend. Maybe even two oodles.\n\n[Hyacinth]\n\nI haven't seen any indication that Hyacinth was possessed by Kypris,\nmuch less \"99% of the time.\" We rarely see her when she isn't acting,\nand Horn emphasizes this point in his Apologia. He says that nice as\nshe was to Silk, she was nasty to everyone else around her. (Not that\nshe was always nice to Silk either, of course). Her behavior fits very\nwell with the interpretation that she's either (a) that rarely seen\nfictional character, the whore with the heart of brass, or (b) a\nspy/courtesan working for Trivigaunte. Or both.\n\nI'd be interested in seeing some specific instances when Kypris is in\npossession of Hyacinth. (Not to be picky or anything...)\n\nOne additional mystery; why does Auk/Tartaros abduct Hyacinth? If she's\nreally possessed by Kypris most of the time, it makes no sense; Tartaros\nand Kypris are on the same side. Could it be that Tartaros wants her\nkept away from Silk, knowing (as I and others have speculated) that she\nis a spy from Trivigaunte?\n\n[Silk as Kypris's Son]\n\nHere's the dialog when Silk meets his parents during his NDE:\n\n The other woman [Silk's biological mother] did not speak, but her\n eyes spoke truth.\n \"You were my mother,\" he said. \"I understand.\"\n He looked down at his own beautiful mother. \"You will always be my\n mother. Always.\"\n\nIt's a bit hard to tell, but I think \"his own beautiful mother\" in the\nlast paragraph is his adoptive mother. What he \"understands\" is that\nthe woman he thought was his mother wasn't (\"truth\"), but he still loves\nher as though she had been.\n\nI don't see any indication that Kypris (whose original, after all, was\nthe kept mistress of a rather bad-tempered tyrant) would have conceived\nan embryo by someone else to place on the _Whorl_.\n\n[Pas is Dead]\n\nI think Pas was killed after the _Whorl_ reached the Blue/Green system.\nWe never get anything specific about why Echidna et al. revolted, but to\nme it's compelling that they coexist fairly happily for hundreds of\nyears, then revolt. Why? Pure malice, as per Remora's answer about the\ncobra? No. They revolted because Pas wanted the voyage to end, wanted\nthe Cargo to depart, wanted the _Whorl_ to be depopulated. Some of the\nother gods wanted to keep on being gods, I think.\n\nIf Pas was a construct of Kypris and Tartaros, why were they trying to\nreassemble his scattered elements, such as the one Jerboa carried? The\nconstruct seemed to be working okay. Remember that all the gods are\njust \"manifestations of Mainframe\"; in other words, they are computer\nprograms. I find it easy to believe the scenario of Pas stashing\nbackups or parts of backups here and there, and a partially restored Pas\nbeing able to put on a fairly convincing theophany.\n\n[Pike's Ghost]\n\nOliver Stone's opinions aside, I _still_ think it was Quetzal...\n\n[Appreciation]\n\nI agree strongly with mantis that _Long Sun_ grows on you. I recall\nwhen _Nightside_ came out, I found it rather disappointing; probably I\nexpected something more like _New Sun_. Each time a new volume came\nout, I reread the preceding ones and got more out of them. Now, thanks\nto the indefatigable crew here on Whorl, I've reread the whole series\ntwice in the last month, and I like it better each time. This is\ngenerally the case with anything by Wolfe (with his name he'd fit right\nin on the _Whorl_), but this series seems different. _New Sun_ was like\na spaceship covered in a rotting tapestry; pull it off and almost\neverything is revealed. _Long Sun_ is like layer after layer of\noverpainting on an old master; it takes time and effort to reveal what's\nunderneath.\n\n Dave Lebling\n (david_lebling at avid.com)\n\n\n Dave Lebling\n (david_lebling at avid.com)\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "CoxRathvon", "address": "coxrathvon at aol.com" }, "date": "1997-02-04T11:21:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) Hyacinth; Kypris; Pas and more", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I seem to be sharing a wavelength with Dave Lebling, as I agree strongly with\njust about everything in his last message. To wit: \n\n1.) I agree that Silk's biological parents are the tall blue-eyed man and the\nwoman \"whose eyes spoke truth.\" \n\n2.) I share the interpretation of the Whorl having been in the Blue-Green\nsystem for some time; Pas wants the Whorl's exodus (his original plan) while\nEchidna and others have rebelled for selfish reasons. (I'm also inclined to\nbuy the theory that Quetzal and perhaps other inhumi boarded the Whorl when\nit was in or near the Blue-Green system.)\n\n3.) I continue to adhere to the theory that Pike's ghost (followed by the\nflitting-out-the-window shape) must of been Quetzal. However, I don't\nunderstand why he was shape-shifting in Silk's room when as Prolocutor he\ncould have walked right up to Silk at any time.\n\n4.) I too find that the Long Sun books grow better with each rereading.\n Actually I loved \"Nightside\" from the get-go. I especially liked the slow\npace (for Wolfe) and clarity of the Silk-solving-Blood's-villa scenes. My\nfirst reading of \"Lake\" and of \"Calde\" did leave me with the slightest whiff\nof disappointment; I think I was craving more strangeness (if you know what I\nmean), while it seemed there was a lot of chaotic running around in tunnels.\n But I thought \"Exodus\" delivered the goods in a big, big way. And upon\nrereading the whole set I've come to appreciate the middle two books more and\nmore. I can now say that I actually like the Long Sun story even better than\nthe New Sun story--which is saying a lot!\n\n5.) One minor disagreement with Dave, perhaps. I ought to go back and check\n(and I will, soon), but I do think Kypris told Silk that she \"played\" with\nHyacinth. My impression is that Kypris occasionally possessed Hy through the\nglass at Blood's villa. What effect this had on Hy, and how it fits into the\npolitical picture (with Kypris being pro-Silk and Hy being a Trivigaunte\nspy), I'm not certain.\n\nFinally, my thanks to mantis for the useful list of theophanies and\npossessions! I've downloaded that posting as a reference tool.\n\n--Henry Rathvon\n\nQuestions or problems to whorl-owner at lists.best.com" } ] } ] }