{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/682",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 682,
    "subject": "On Blue's Races",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1999-10-12T15:57:20+00:00",
    "last": "1999-10-12T16:25:04+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0010-0095@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "David_Lebling",
        "address": "david_lebling at avid.com"
      },
      "date": "1999-10-12T16:25:04+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) On Blue's Races",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Jim Jordan wrote about Blue's Races.  I thought I'd add a few more of my cents\nto the pile.\n\nI agree: given the spelling of \"Wijzer\" and the use of the word \"Dorp\", the\ninhabitants of Dorp are obviously Dutch.  This is close enough to the German\nspeech style Wijzer exhibits to be enough for me.  (To paraphrase Twain, \"The\nGerman dives into a sentence and comes up on the other side of the Atlantic with\na verb in his mouth.\").  Wouldn't \"Wijzer\" in Dutch be pronounced like \"Wiser\"\nin English?\n\nOn the question of whether these are \"really\" Dutch, or Indian, or Arab, or\nwhatever, didn't Mamelta tell Silk that the Cargo was brainwashed (by the same\nreprogramming technology that possession uses) to believe in their parts in the\ndrama of the _Whorl_? I recall some speculation here on the list that the Cargo\nwere the losers when Typhon conquered the Urth.  Typhon could have given them\nChinese or Indian cultural downloads for the sheer Evil Overlord fun of it.\n(What was the L. Sprague de Camp story where this happened?  \"The Glory That Was\nGreece,\" IIRC, although that was a university with a research grant -- as near\nas makes no difference, I guess.)\n\nOn the other hand, the inhabitants seem to fit visually, not just culturally,\ninto the nations (I won't say 'races' here) to whichTyphon assigned them. I have\na mental picture of Typhon going to his era's equivalent of India and gathering\nup proto-Gaonese, Latin America for proto-Vironese, and so on.  This is not as\nfar fetched as it seems (though it is somewhat far-fetched).  It is certainly\npossible to imagine that racial or national \"types\" could last a long time into\nthe future, especially if there was a decline to a lower technological base.\nMamelta's people were probably the ancestors of the Exultants of Severian's\ntime, who we have theorized came from off-world. Typhon may have even had the\ngene-engineering technology to twiddle people so they fit the national\nstereotypes better, but that's more of a stretch.  Even so, the inhabitants of\nViron aren't all Latin American stereotypes in appearance, though the other\ntowns seem more homogeneous insofar as we know anything about them.\n\nSeawrack doesn't fit any of the stereotypes of the nations we have been\nintroduced to (unless pinup girl is a nationality).  The only other blond we\nknow from the Long Sun books is Silk.  (He is blond, isn't he?  Or is he just\nblue-eyed?).\n\n     -- Dave Lebling\n     (aka vizcacha)\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0010-0097@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jim Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "1999-10-12T15:57:20+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (whorl) On Blue's Races",
      "in_reply_to": "<whorl-v0010-0095@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "At 04:25 PM 10/12/99 -0400, you wrote:\n\n.  Wouldn't \"Wijzer\" in Dutch be pronounced like \"Wiser\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "in English?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tViser'd be closer. The \"ij\" in Dutch is the German \"ei,\" so the long \"i\"\nsound is correct. The doubleyou would be pronounced as a vee, though. Of\ncourse, when it comes to Wolfe, you never know, so we'd have to think about\nit, and maybe get into a BIG argument here over whether Wijzer is\nfar-seeing (Visor) or insightful (Wiser).\n\nNutrium\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}