Subject: (whorl) Re: Digest whorl.v010.n035

From: Alice Turner <akt at attglobal.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:35:54 +0000

> >Ah, but as someone actually going through the conversion process right
now,
> >I think formal Catholic position is "sure the gospels were written later,
> under
> >difficult circumstances, etc." but that, of course, they overcame this by
aid
> >of the Holy Spirit.
>
> Yes, you and I and Wolfe agree, and Alga (almost certainly) doesn't. My
> only point was that we have to consider what Wolfe had in mind. [snip]

Well, Ratty, you're wrong, I do agree. My very point was that Horn, exactly
like Mathew (the most egregious of the gospeleers, IMO--and I will happily
cite how), when he wasn't present at an event, made free to invent, but with
the sincerity of love and the drive of evangelism, which is, I suppose, what
Alex means by the Holy Spirit. That, however, doesn't quite make it fact.

Alex, I am interested in what "going through the conversion process" means.
If you think that is off-topic, would you please email me about it? TIA.
(The fact that I am a heathen doesn't make me theologically rude, except to
the Rat, who likes it.)

-alga

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---

From: Alex David Groce <alex_groce at gs246.sp.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:51:03 +0000

>Alex means by the Holy Spirit. That, however, doesn't quite make it fact.

Ah, but Rat & I would attribute to the Holy Spirit the result that Matthew
never actually _gets it wrong_--contradictions are only apparent, resulting
from reading things in the wrong sense.  How exactly this applies to things
like "who WAS the high priest at time X?" and such I forget at the moment and
is probably out of the list's scope, anyway.

Which is highly relevant to OBW/The Book of Silk if we (as I would assume we
all do) think Horn & Nettle writing are meant to be analogous to writing a
Gospel.  In other words, sure Horn wanted to get it right out of "love and the
drive of evangelism"--but if you take the model Wolfe's probably using, he
really DID get it right.  Which, as far as I know, just the desire doesn't
guarantee.  That's where we seem to differ.  Given Wolfe's penchant for 
having "secular" things act suspiciously as if at the behest of the Outsider,
this strongly suggests Horn had help (from Mainframe or something) to 
guarantee he got it right.  On the other hand, since in Long Sun the Outsider
does directly Enlighten Silk it can't be ruled out that Horn really does have
direct supernatural aid in writing the Book of Silk.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32
--
Alex David Groce (agroce+ at cs.cmu.edu)
Ph.D. Student, Carnegie Mellon University - Computer Science Department
8112 Wean Hall (412)-268-3066
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~agroce

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:23:50 +0000

> direct supernatural aid in writing the Book of Silk.

On the other hand, I think it's still possible for a skeptic to read the
Long Sun books and side with Dr. Crane on the question of Silk's
enlightenment.  For that reason, I think it strengthens the books to leave
open the question of whether Horn is embellishing or not.  It makes for a
stronger parallel with the Gospels.  As this list illustrates it's
possible for smart people to disagree about whether Matthew fudged any of
the details or not. 

I would prefer to assess the Book of Silk based on what we learn of the
character of Horn and Nettle than to learn that Mainframe was the de facto
omnicient narrator.  How much fun is a Wolfe story where you know you can
trust the narrator? 

-Rostrum