{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/769",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "whorl",
  "thread": {
    "id": 769,
    "subject": "Miscellany",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2000-01-29T15:42:59+00:00",
    "last": "2000-01-29T15:42:59+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<whorl-v0010-0248@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Jim Jordan",
        "address": "jbjordan at gnt.net"
      },
      "date": "2000-01-29T15:42:59+00:00",
      "subject": "(whorl) Miscellany",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 01:21 PM 1/22/00 PST, you wrote:\nAllan Lloyd writes:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 4,
          "text": "The other thing that puzzles me is the dialogue on page 353 where Sinew\nclaims that no-one gets bitten in Pajarocu. They agree that visitors do\nbut natives of the town don't. Could it be the home brewed beer that is\nmentioned!<<"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "And Alga replied:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "Interesting! Wouldn't it be funny if that was the much-discussed \"secret!\" \nI had simply assumed that Pajarocu was a sort of DMZ, though--don't mess \nwith us and we won't mess with you."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I read this as Pajarocu, because they were staging the trap with the lander, \nhad a truce with the inhumi -- the inhumi wouldn't bite them because the \nhumans allowed them to load up a lander full of meat/slaves for the home \nplanet.  If the inhumi started attacking people in Pajarocu, they might get \nscared off and/or warn other people.\n\nNarwhal"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "\tGood point, and what I thought also, and still think is the major reason.\nBut given all the sacramental stuff in the Severian series, and recalling\nhow Tim Powers, for instance, uses wine and beer as sacramental protections\nagainst evil powers, the beer idea may have some merit also. Wolfe has read\nPowers, BTW, though the idea could easily be original with him apart from\nPowers.\n\tSomeone suggested iron. Well, there's good history for that, too, and it\nwould be like Wolfe to put them both together (both \"nature\" iron and\n\"grace\" alcohol). As I recall, Powers also puts them together. \n\tSomeone also pointed out that the mysterious ring has an old white stone\non it. I did not look up the passage, but as a thought: In Revelation 2:17,\nthe overcomers (the faithful saints) are given a mysterious white stone.\nThis may be a mere coincidence, or part of the tangled web that the Wolfe\nweaves, since it comes from a \"god.\"\n\tSomeone also pointed out that Wolfe said that he put a ghost in the middle\nof one of his SF novels. Well, know that Wolfe believes ghosts are real; I\nheard him say so at a panel discussion at a World Fantasy Convention. So,\nwhen he puts a ghost, or an ancient god-spirit, into a novel, it's not a\ndeparture from HIS notion of reality or of SF -- not a move into \"fantasy,\"\nso to speak. But I don't know which novel this is, and am inclined to agree\nwith Alga that the ghost of Patera Pike is in fact Quetzal.\n\tHorn's being cast into a pit is some kind of death-resurrection sequence,\nand has Biblical roots. It happened to Joseph, who was drawn up by his\nbrothers and sold into Egypt, and then became a ruler; something similar\nhappens to Horn when he becomes Rajan. Perhaps more interesting, it happens\nto Jeremiah, who is rescued by the Ethiopian Ebed-Melech (Jer. 38). As with\nHorn, Jeremiah's life only got worse afterwards, as you can read in the\nbook of Jeremiah. The Ethiopian, being a foreigner and a stranger to\nIsrael, and who looks different (being dark-skinned), could link with\nKrait, who is also a stranger, looks different, but chooses to have\ncompassion on a distressed human. (Obviously, Wolfe is not trying to link\nnegroes with vampires! [Do I have to say this?]) I'm not going to go to the\nstake for any of this, but I thought I'd toss it into the mix.\n\nNutria\n\nNutria\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}