{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/772", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 772, "subject": "replies to misc. stuff -- Ghosts, rings, etc.", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "2000-01-30T22:16:36+00:00", "last": "2000-01-30T22:16:36+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Josh Levitan", "address": "josh_levitan at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2000-01-30T22:16:36+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: replies to misc. stuff -- Ghosts, rings, etc.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Good old Alga wrote:\n\nWelcome, Sheila," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " On Mucor.\n\nAt WindyCon, GW mentioned at one of his panels\nthat He purposefully put a ghost into the middle\nof one of his novels so that the reader would\nnot expect only science fiction from the novel.\n(The panel was about mixing the genres).\n\nSo perhaps he is mixing sf and the supernatural." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, this remark may have referred to the apparition of Patera Pike (LS1), \nwhich has caused a great deal of fingerwork on many keyboards for these \narchives. (I still think it was Quetzal, though.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And Nutria wrote:\nSomeone also pointed out that Wolfe said that he put a ghost in the middle\nof one of his SF novels. Well, know that Wolfe believes ghosts are real; I\nheard him say so at a panel discussion at a World Fantasy Convention. So,\nwhen he puts a ghost, or an ancient god-spirit, into a novel, it's not a\ndeparture from HIS notion of reality or of SF -- not a move into \"fantasy,\"\nso to speak. But I don't know which novel this is, and am inclined to agree\nwith Alga that the ghost of Patera Pike is in fact Quetzal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But Wolfe said explicitly (I believe in his answers to the last and final \nset of questions put to him by this mailing list) that Pike's ghost wasn't \nQuetzal. So I think this is what he's referring to -- he threw in Pike's \nghost to be supernatural and mix up our conceptions of genre in his novels \n(and probably for some other reason as well, perhaps to tie in with the \neidolons in BOTNS)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Then Nutria wrote:\nHorn's being cast into a pit is some kind of death-resurrection sequence,\nand has Biblical roots. It happened to Joseph, who was drawn up by his\nbrothers and sold into Egypt, and then became a ruler; something similar\nhappens to Horn when he becomes Rajan. Perhaps more interesting, it happens\nto Jeremiah, who is rescued by the Ethiopian Ebed-Melech (Jer. 38). As with\nHorn, Jeremiah's life only got worse afterwards, as you can read in the\nbook of Jeremiah. The Ethiopian, being a foreigner and a stranger to\nIsrael, and who looks different (being dark-skinned), could link with\nKrait, who is also a stranger, looks different, but chooses to have\ncompassion on a distressed human. (Obviously, Wolfe is not trying to link\nnegroes with vampires! [Do I have to say this?]) I'm not going to go to the\nstake for any of this, but I thought I'd toss it into the mix." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Good point. It happens a lot in the Bible, to Daniel, in the Lion's Den, \namongst others, and ties in nicely with what happened during the \ndeath/resurrection of Silk in the underground tunnels on the Whorl. And, as \nsomeone mentioned before, this is most likely a literal death and \nresurrection. After Horn is rescued, he asks Seawrack why she didn't get \nhim out of the pit, and she tells him he was dead. The interesting thing, \nthough, is that Krait says that she's lying about this, and Horn thinks \nshe's lying also. Someone else (sorry for the faulty memory in this post) \nposited that it could be the Outsider who comes and resurrects Horn with the \nClaw. And another interpretation is that Horn was dead, but somehow Krait \nwas able to revive him enough to bring him back to life through a \ntransfusion. Either way, Krait was clearly lying about Horn's death.\n\nIf the Outsider saved him, it's a mystery why Krait lied. If Krait has \nresurrection type powers, then he probably lied because this ties in with \nThe Secret, and it does have something to do with human/inhumi blood." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Alex David Groce wrote:\nActually, the whole ring business is going to bother me until I know what\nis going on with it, because it reminds me of something very strongly:\nThomas Covenant. Yes--Horn rapes Seawrack, and she gives him a white/gold\nring with mysterious powers; as Covenant raped Lena, who (did she? I don't\nreally remember) gives him a white-gold ring with mysterious powers. If it\nwas anything else, I'd say the reference was obvious, but I so disliked the\nCovenant books that I'm really hoping that future events will convince me \nthis\nresemblance is purely accidental." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't like the Covenant books either, and stopped reading after number \none. However, I seem to recall that his ring was his wedding ring that he \nbrought with him to the other world (I forget the name). It just happened \nto be white gold, which was a source of great power, and bane to the evil \nguy. I think that this coincidence was one of the reasons I didn't like the \nbook.\n\nMy two cents,\n\nNarwhal" } ] } ] }