{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/whorl/844", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "whorl", "thread": { "id": 844, "subject": "When did the Whorl arrive?", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2000-06-17T17:40:11+00:00", "last": "2000-06-19T09:51:05+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-06-17T17:40:11+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) When did the Whorl arrive?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis wrote:\nIn OBW, the Rajan goes over some of the same stuff we've gone over with\nregard to how Quetzal got onto the Whorl, that is, \"in what year\" and \"by\nwhat method.\"\n\nThe Rajan ends by figuring that the Whorl must have been just hanging\naround in the system for 100 years (detail also matches Pas's planned\ntimeframe, such as we know). This means that the flight-time was only\naround 200 years." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But the 100 years is not the time the Whorl has been in the system, but\nthe Rajan's guess at the interval between Whorl-Green conjunctions (and\neven this guess is based on the hypothesis that Quetzal flew to the\nWhorl during such a conjunction, which the Rajan apparently no longer\nregards as the most likely possibility).\n\nThe Rajan's actual estimate of the length of time since Quetzal appeared\non the Whorl, and hence the minimum time the Whorl has been in the\nsystem, is 68 years.\n\n--Adam\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at sirius.com" }, "date": "2000-06-17T19:36:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: (whorl) When did the Whorl arrive?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adam, quoting and quoted:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In OBW, the Rajan goes over some of the same stuff we've gone over with\nregard to how Quetzal got onto the Whorl, that is, \"in what year\" and \"by\nwhat method.\"\n\nThe Rajan ends by figuring that the Whorl must have been just hanging\naround in the system for 100 years (detail also matches Pas's planned\ntimeframe, such as we know). This means that the flight-time was only\naround 200 years." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But the 100 years is not the time the Whorl has been in the system, but\nthe Rajan's guess at the interval between Whorl-Green conjunctions (and\neven this guess is based on the hypothesis that Quetzal flew to the\nWhorl during such a conjunction, which the Rajan apparently no longer\nregards as the most likely possibility).\n\nThe Rajan's actual estimate of the length of time since Quetzal appeared\non the Whorl, and hence the minimum time the Whorl has been in the\nsystem, is 68 years." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And I quote: \"That [60 years of Q onboard] seemed rather short to me--I\nwould have imagined that such a rise [for Q within church] would require\nfifteen years or more [and Q would have only seven years]\" (OBW, p. 182).\n\nAnd back in BOTLS:\n\"The way I see it, Pas was thinking mostly about the first two hundred\nyears. Maybe the first two hundred and fifty\" (LAKE, p. 235-6).\n\n(I won't bore you with the other details--you would discount them faster\nthan you will this one!)\n\nAfter looking at those numbers afresh, Gosh Adam, maybe you're right and\nI've erred on the timid side--it could be 132 years since the Whorl arrived\nat the Blue/Green system! Or perhaps only 62 . . . well, we could take an\naverage.\n\nCan't forget to add the Years of the Colony to all figures!\n\nBOTLS : year 332\nBOTSS : Blue colony year 20 = whorl year 352\n\nSo that would be . . . 152 years ago, or only 82 . . .\n\n(This has bearing re: apparant likelihood of Whorl conjuction from\nperspective of year 352)\n\n(332 - 132 =) year 200 Hammerstone's highball for Plan of Pas\n(332 - 62 =) year 250 Hammerstone's lowball for Plan of Pas\n\nYear 251: Jerboa born\n\n(352 - 100 =) year 252 Horn's highball for being insystem\n(352 - 68 =) year 284 Horn's practical limit for being insystem\n(352 - 60 =) year 292 Horn's lowball for being insystem\n\nYear 299: Q becomes P of Viron\n\nConnection between \"Plan of Pas\" and \"being insystem\"? Conjecture, surely.\n\nWe had precious few clues in BOTLS as to how long the Whorl =might= have\nbeen just hanging around. Believe It or Not: I wouldn't even factor it\n(idle orbit) into the calculations on the travel of the Whorl. Now Horn is\nfooling around with it, and it seems rather like he is working in the same\narea as the Hammerstone hint we had before.\n\nWhatever.\n\n=mantis=\n\n\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Adam Stephanides", "address": "adamsteph at earthlink.net" }, "date": "2000-06-19T09:51:05+00:00", "subject": "(whorl) Re: When did the Whorl arrive?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis wrote:\n\nAnd I quote: \"That [60 years of Q onboard] seemed rather short to me--I\nwould have imagined that such a rise [for Q within church] would require\nfifteen years or more [and Q would have only seven years]\" (OBW, p. 182). " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right--this, and what follows, is where I got the 68 years from. Or am\nI missing your point?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(352 - 100 =) year 252 Horn's highball for being insystem" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This I don't see. I'd have to look up the text again (I don't have it\nwith me) but my recollection is that the 100-year figure applied only to\nthe interval between (hypothetical) Whorl-Green conjunctions. I don't\nrecall Horn in this passage considering at all the maximum amount of\ntime the Whorl could have spent in the system." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We had precious few clues in BOTLS as to how long the Whorl =might= have\nbeen just hanging around. Believe It or Not: I wouldn't even factor it\n(idle orbit) into the calculations on the travel of the Whorl. Now Horn is\nfooling around with it, and it seems rather like he is working in the same\narea as the Hammerstone hint we had before." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If we assume that the Whorl was in the system when Quetzal came on\nboard, and that Horn's recollections/extrapolations of Quetzal's career\nare accurate, then the minimum of 68 years can be approximately relied\non. Horn's other numbers are only guesswork, and very shaky at that. \n(I won't comment on the BoTLS stuff, because I don't remember it at all\nand I don't have the texts with me.)\n\n--Adam\n\n*This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun." } ] } ] }