# When did the Whorl arrive? *The Whorl list — 3 messages, 2 voices, 17 Jun 2000* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Adam Stephanides *17 Jun 2000, 17:40* > mantis wrote: > In OBW, the Rajan goes over some of the same stuff we've gone over with > regard to how Quetzal got onto the Whorl, that is, "in what year" and "by > what method." > > The Rajan ends by figuring that the Whorl must have been just hanging > around in the system for 100 years (detail also matches Pas's planned > timeframe, such as we know). This means that the flight-time was only > around 200 years. But the 100 years is not the time the Whorl has been in the system, but the Rajan's guess at the interval between Whorl-Green conjunctions (and even this guess is based on the hypothesis that Quetzal flew to the Whorl during such a conjunction, which the Rajan apparently no longer regards as the most likely possibility). The Rajan's actual estimate of the length of time since Quetzal appeared on the Whorl, and hence the minimum time the Whorl has been in the system, is 68 years. --Adam *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Michael Andre-Driussi *17 Jun 2000, 19:36 · follows Adam Stephanides* Adam, quoting and quoted: >> In OBW, the Rajan goes over some of the same stuff we've gone over with >> regard to how Quetzal got onto the Whorl, that is, "in what year" and "by >> what method." >> >> The Rajan ends by figuring that the Whorl must have been just hanging >> around in the system for 100 years (detail also matches Pas's planned >> timeframe, such as we know). This means that the flight-time was only >> around 200 years. > But the 100 years is not the time the Whorl has been in the system, but > the Rajan's guess at the interval between Whorl-Green conjunctions (and > even this guess is based on the hypothesis that Quetzal flew to the > Whorl during such a conjunction, which the Rajan apparently no longer > regards as the most likely possibility). > > The Rajan's actual estimate of the length of time since Quetzal appeared > on the Whorl, and hence the minimum time the Whorl has been in the > system, is 68 years. And I quote: "That [60 years of Q onboard] seemed rather short to me--I would have imagined that such a rise [for Q within church] would require fifteen years or more [and Q would have only seven years]" (OBW, p. 182). And back in BOTLS: "The way I see it, Pas was thinking mostly about the first two hundred years. Maybe the first two hundred and fifty" (LAKE, p. 235-6). (I won't bore you with the other details--you would discount them faster than you will this one!) After looking at those numbers afresh, Gosh Adam, maybe you're right and I've erred on the timid side--it could be 132 years since the Whorl arrived at the Blue/Green system! Or perhaps only 62 . . . well, we could take an average. Can't forget to add the Years of the Colony to all figures! BOTLS : year 332 BOTSS : Blue colony year 20 = whorl year 352 So that would be . . . 152 years ago, or only 82 . . . (This has bearing re: apparant likelihood of Whorl conjuction from perspective of year 352) (332 - 132 =) year 200 Hammerstone's highball for Plan of Pas (332 - 62 =) year 250 Hammerstone's lowball for Plan of Pas Year 251: Jerboa born (352 - 100 =) year 252 Horn's highball for being insystem (352 - 68 =) year 284 Horn's practical limit for being insystem (352 - 60 =) year 292 Horn's lowball for being insystem Year 299: Q becomes P of Viron Connection between "Plan of Pas" and "being insystem"? Conjecture, surely. We had precious few clues in BOTLS as to how long the Whorl =might= have been just hanging around. Believe It or Not: I wouldn't even factor it (idle orbit) into the calculations on the travel of the Whorl. Now Horn is fooling around with it, and it seems rather like he is working in the same area as the Hammerstone hint we had before. Whatever. =mantis= *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Adam Stephanides *19 Jun 2000, 09:51 · follows Michael Andre-Driussi* > mantis wrote: > > And I quote: "That [60 years of Q onboard] seemed rather short to me--I > would have imagined that such a rise [for Q within church] would require > fifteen years or more [and Q would have only seven years]" (OBW, p. 182). Right--this, and what follows, is where I got the 68 years from. Or am I missing your point? > (352 - 100 =) year 252 Horn's highball for being insystem This I don't see. I'd have to look up the text again (I don't have it with me) but my recollection is that the 100-year figure applied only to the interval between (hypothetical) Whorl-Green conjunctions. I don't recall Horn in this passage considering at all the maximum amount of time the Whorl could have spent in the system. > We had precious few clues in BOTLS as to how long the Whorl =might= have > been just hanging around. Believe It or Not: I wouldn't even factor it > (idle orbit) into the calculations on the travel of the Whorl. Now Horn is > fooling around with it, and it seems rather like he is working in the same > area as the Hammerstone hint we had before. If we assume that the Whorl was in the system when Quetzal came on board, and that Horn's recollections/extrapolations of Quetzal's career are accurate, then the minimum of 68 years can be approximately relied on. Horn's other numbers are only guesswork, and very shaky at that. (I won't comment on the BoTLS stuff, because I don't remember it at all and I don't have the texts with me.) --Adam *This is WHORL, for discussion of Gene Wolfe's Book of the Long Sun. ---